Bad host: Iraqi refugees left to live on Delhi streets

[Anderson]

Originally Posted by Arabesque

I hope it was just a coincidence that you picked "Emirati" from all other Gulf states. The Emirates records the least cases of abuse against domestic workers. In fact, many cases of abuse involve non-Emirati sponsors. Just because it happens in the UAE doesn't mean those involved are UAE nationals. Almost everyone here has domestic help, including middle-class Indians (and they are the majority).

I was just reading a few hours ago in our daily newspaper the story of this domestic worker of Indian origin:

Gulfnews: Leaving behind happy memories and returning with a heavy heart

Of course, the story of her generous Emirati sponsor will go unmentioned. People are so ungrateful. I believe Allah (swt) gives people what they deserve.

You don't have to jump each time you hear the word Emirati, It's just the first country that comes to mind due to the number of Asians living there, and its not just about domestic workers the general attitude towards foriegners in the region makes alot of people hate them. I'm not an Indian construction worker or domestic help who has suffered abuse but I was just saying those who have suffered resent Gulf Arabs and not Iraqis and so on.

Much of the exploitation by Khaleejis of South Asians is facilitated by South Asian employment agencies and so on.

anyone who's been under the employ of a South Asian knows they'll milk you for every ounce of energy regardless of your ethnicity.

Here...I didn't deny South Asians treat fellow South Asians bad.


That News story is pretty bizarre, in England we don't get stories like 'Afghan Asylum Seeker happy with English people' or 'Black Man not racially attacked- very grateful to white people'.

"Even though I had to give a huge amount as dowry for my daughter's marriage, my son-in-law is also a nice person.

That's pretty messed up, dowry for daughters marriage?!?

[Arabesque]

Originally Posted by Anderson

You don't have to jump each time you hear the word Emirati, It's just the first country that comes to mind due to the number of Asians living there, and its not just about domestic workers the general attitude towards foriegners in the region makes alot of people hate them. I'm not an Indian construction worker or domestic help who has suffered abuse but I was just saying those who have suffered resent Gulf Arabs and not Iraqis and so on.

I'm not being defensive. I just don't appreciate ungratefulness. We only make up 700,000 of the entire 5 million. Many Emiratis are also unhappy with the number of Asians taking over their country and their jobs, and I wish half of them were even Muslim!

What's disappointing and angering is that the same people have absolutely no rights in their home countries. They are "disposable" and "dispensable" in their own countries. They have better lives, better opportunities and comparatively more rights in the UAE (I don't know about other Gulf countries), yet they carry so much hate and bitterness, God knows why.

If they hate it so much, why do they stay as illegals even after their visas expire?

That News story is pretty bizarre, in England we don't get stories like 'Afghan Asylum Seeker happy with English people' or 'Black Man not racially attacked- very grateful to white people'.

The story is not strange. It comes at a time where the government is carrying out a major crackdown on illegal workers. Not surprisingly, the decision was undertaken after a recent study predicted that the number of UAE nationals will fall down to less than 2% by 2025. There are 1.3 Indian nationals alone living in Dubai legally. Imagine the number of illegals. The government is giving people a chance to fix their situation or leave under amnesty. Those who can't fix their situation try to do so by generating sympathies from people. They know it works in this part of the world, unfortunately.

That's pretty messed up, dowry for daughters marriage?!?

Hindu marriage, I guess.

[Anderson]

Originally Posted by Arabesque

I'm not being defensive. I just don't appreciate ungratefulness. We only make up 700,000 of the entire 5 million. Many Emiratis are also unhappy with the number of Asians taking over their country and their jobs, and I wish half of them were even Muslim!

What's disappointing and angering is that the same people have absolutely no rights in their home countries. They are "disposable" and "dispensable" in their own countries. They have better lives, better opportunities and comparatively more rights in the UAE (I don't know about other Gulf countries), yet they carry so much hate and bitterness, God knows why.

If they hate it so much, why do they stay as illegals even after their visas expire?

I don't think every Asian who hates Khaleejis is doing so out of personal experience, some hear stories about how their compatriots are looked down upon when visiting or working in the Khaleej. And I guess you'll have to ask the workers themselves why they want to stay.

The story is not strange. It comes at a time where the government is carrying out a major crackdown on illegal workers. Not surprisingly, the decision was undertaken after a recent study predicted that the number of UAE nationals will fall down to less than 2% by 2025. There are 1.3 Indian nationals alone living in Dubai legally. Imagine the number of illegals. The government is giving people a chance to fix their situation or leave under amnesty. Those who can't fix their situation try to do so by generating sympathies from people. They know it works in this part of the world, unfortunately

It just wouldn't be regarded a good story here, I mean its difficult to imagine a journalist rooting out South Asian workers and then finding one who knew a good man, who offered her a free ticket (but she didn't need it) and then writing a story about that without the guys name or description. I find it difficult to imagine why any editor would think that was an interesting story, even if it was a rare occurrence.

[Arabesque]

Originally Posted by Anderson

I don't think every Asian who hates Khaleejis is doing so out of personal experience, some hear stories about how their compatriots are looked down upon when visiting or working in the Khaleej. And I guess you'll have to ask the workers themselves why they want to stay.

So I heard there's a lot of racism against Muslims in the UK. Haven't experienced anything personally (except one Sikh was being a jerk, but I guess it's in the genes). So would it be reasonable or rational to hate the country and its people because I've heard about the infested racism?

Besides, experiencing one thing in one country should not lead you to believe that all countries in the region are the same. I know from friends who have lived in Kuwait that they've all experienced racism at least once. Kuwait is not the UAE, not Bahrain, and surely not the UK. It's a different place.

Also, what goes around comes around. Those who experience racism must have been racist or mean towards another person (maybe a Muslim??) back in their home countries. They shouldn't have to feel welcome and comfortable in a Muslim country. Personally, I would support racism against Hindus of such kind.

It just wouldn't be regarded a good story here, I mean its difficult to imagine a journalist rooting out South Asian workers and then finding one who knew a good man, who offered her a free ticket (but she didn't need it) and then writing a story about that without the guys name or description. I find it difficult to imagine why any editor would think that was an interesting story, even if it was a rare occurrence.

I'm sure you realise that apart from the 7days (tabloid), which is run by British nationals, all the English publications in the UAE are run by South Asians (mainly Indians). The reason they'd publish a story like that is not because they want to make certain people look good. They're just trying to encourage more people (including nationals) not to file cases against absconding employees under their sponsorship. Filing a case would result in a life-time ban.

[Anderson]

Originally Posted by Arabesque

So I heard there's a lot of racism against Muslims in the UK. Haven't experienced anything personally (except one Sikh was being a jerk, but I guess it's in the genes). So would it be reasonable or rational to hate the country and its people because I've heard about the infested racism?

.

I don't know you should ask them.

And I think we should apologise for this thread hijack.

[shsh]

Originally Posted by Anderson

You don't have to jump each time you hear the word Emirati

every time i hear the word emirati, this is what comes to my mind:

"ishi biladi 3ash itahad emaratina..."

[GOTFIVEONIT]

Originally Posted by Arabesque

I don't think it's a good idea for Gulf countries to take in Iraqis. They always end up in prostitution. There are greedy people who will take advantage of their need and miserable situation, and it's happening already.

Why can't the US or the UK take in those Iraqis? Why does everybody expect the Gulf countries to pay everybody else's bills.

I'm all for helping other Muslims, but in this case, we didn't really invade their country and destroy the infrastructure, causing unemployment and anarchy. Let those who thought it was a good idea to invade a country and reduce it to a mafia den take care of those people. I'm sure many Iraqis would love to move to the West.

i think the U.S. and U.K. should, but right-wing anti-immigration activists get in the way of that. and also, i posted a news item i read on how many young iraqi girls living in syria and jordan have already turned to prostitution just to feed thier families, because many times there are no male members with them.

[GOTFIVEONIT]

Originally Posted by Arabesque

I hope it was just a coincidence that you picked "Emirati" from all other Gulf states. The Emirates records the least cases of abuse against domestic workers. In fact, many cases of abuse involve non-Emirati sponsors. Just because it happens in the UAE doesn't mean those involved are UAE nationals. Almost everyone here has domestic help, including middle-class Indians (and they are the majority).

I was just reading a few hours ago in our daily newspaper the story of this domestic worker of Indian origin:

Gulfnews: Leaving behind happy memories and returning with a heavy heart

Of course, the story of her generous Emirati sponsor will go unmentioned. People are so ungrateful. I believe Allah (swt) gives people what they deserve.

look as for the issue of abuse of foreign maid's, alot of illegal mexican or illegal south american women work as maids in the u.s. most speak little or no english at all. and alot of them do get abused, especially the younger girls.

Plus, how many women and young girls in India and Pakistan work as maids? millions do, and plenty of them get abused, raped etc. and no one cares. I have seen them beating thier employees out in the open in full view of everyone.

[Arabesque]

Originally Posted by GOTFIVEONIT

i think the U.S. and U.K. should, but right-wing anti-immigration activists get in the way of that. and also, i posted a news item i read on how many young iraqi girls living in syria and jordan have already turned to prostitution just to feed thier families, because many times there are no male members with them.

Nobody feels responsible for them. It's sad, but I totally understand why Arabs would turn their backs on them. Not justifying, I just "understand". Iraqis are always welcome in our countries, but we simply don't want to pay somebody else's bills. We are "forced" to donate so much money for the "rebuilding" of other countries that the USA enjoys bombing and reducing to dust and ashes. It's not our business.

It's not in our "national interests" to pay anyone's bills, especially not that of the US. They are a rich country. We all know about the "5% of the world population consuming half the world resources". They feel responsible for policing the world, they should just finish what they had started. Besides, they're so hated by the Iraqis themselves. A good way to reverse the situation may be through giving them visas or granting them asylum.

The Iraqis should have known, better the devil you know than the devil you don't.

[GOTFIVEONIT]

Originally Posted by Arabesque

I'm not being defensive. I just don't appreciate ungratefulness. We only make up 700,000 of the entire 5 million. Many Emiratis are also unhappy with the number of Asians taking over their country and their jobs, and I wish half of them were even Muslim!

What's disappointing and angering is that the same people have absolutely no rights in their home countries. They are "disposable" and "dispensable" in their own countries. They have better lives, better opportunities and comparatively more rights in the UAE (I don't know about other Gulf countries), yet they carry so much hate and bitterness, God knows why.

If they hate it so much, why do they stay as illegals even after their visas expire?




The story is not strange. It comes at a time where the government is carrying out a major crackdown on illegal workers. Not surprisingly, the decision was undertaken after a recent study predicted that the number of UAE nationals will fall down to less than 2% by 2025. There are 1.3 Indian nationals alone living in Dubai legally. Imagine the number of illegals. The government is giving people a chance to fix their situation or leave under amnesty. Those who can't fix their situation try to do so by generating sympathies from people. They know it works in this part of the world, unfortunately.




Hindu marriage, I guess.

i know that the government does try to do alot to crack down on abuse of foreign workers, but i was watching a documentary about that on al jazeera english on how the greedy contractors responsible do play games, dont pay thier employees money, and keep them in cramped and dirty conditions. this was in regards to construction workers only.

worker abuse happens, and i think its the worst in the construction business, where recruiters in India are i cohuts with greedy contractors in the gulf. so maybe after al jazeera aired that documentary last week the Gulf governments will take some sort of action against them.

[Arabesque]

Originally Posted by GOTFIVEONIT

look as for the issue of abuse of foreign maid's, alot of illegal mexican or illegal south american women work as maids in the u.s. most speak little or no english at all. and alot of them do get abused, especially the younger girls.

Plus, how many women and young girls in India and Pakistan work as maids? millions do, and plenty of them get abused, raped etc. and no one cares. I have seen them beating thier employees out in the open in full view of everyone.

I'm not saying it's good, and I'm not denying that it happens. It happens and it's bad. But to deny all good and focus on the bad is just ungrateful. Those who are abused (at least in the UAE) get compensated. Employers get fined and jailed. I wonder if the same people have right to claim compensation in their home countries. I don't think they can pay a lawyer to defend them, whereas in the UAE, the government provides a lawyer for free.

[GOTFIVEONIT]

Originally Posted by Arabesque

Nobody feels responsible for them. It's sad, but I totally understand why Arabs would turn their backs on them. Not justifying, I just "understand". Iraqis are always welcome in our countries, but we simply don't want to pay somebody else's bills. We are "forced" to donate so much money for the "rebuilding" of other countries that the USA enjoys bombing and reducing to dust and ashes. It's not our business.

It's not in our "national interests" to pay anyone's bills, especially not that of the US. They are a rich country. We all know about the "5% of the world population consuming half the world resources". They feel responsible for policing the world, they should just finish what they had started. Besides, they're so hated by the Iraqis themselves. A good way to reverse the situation may be through giving them visas or granting them asylum.

The Iraqis should have known, better the devil you know than the devil you don't.

youa re absolutly correct, and many liberal's in the united states also agree with this. i went to a anti-war demonstration once and people had signs up thanking the french president hehe.

but the way the u.s. government looks at it, and this is thier view not mine, is that they have thousands of troops in these gulf countries protecting them from invasions by Iran, and keeping all the rulers of these countries in power. So they feel that those same rulers owe them at the same time.

[GOTFIVEONIT]

Originally Posted by Arabesque

I'm not saying it's good, and I'm not denying that it happens. It happens and it's bad. But to deny all good and focus on the bad is just ungrateful. Those who are abused (at least in the UAE) get compensated. Employers get fined and jailed. I wonder if the same people have right to claim compensation in their home countries. I don't think they can pay a lawyer to defend them, whereas in the UAE, the government provides a lawyer for free.

you are correct. In India and Pakistan, most of these people are very poor and have very little to begin with. I had a far relative who worked as a nanny for a family in the Gulf many years ago, but she was an old woman and said her hosts treated her good.

and i did post a news item of a wealthy Indian (hindu) couple living in the wealthy suburbs of New York, who were keeping thier Indonesian maids in slave like conditions and beating them and even sexually abusing them. by both the wife and husband.

[Arabesque]

Originally Posted by GOTFIVEONIT

i know that the government does try to do alot to crack down on abuse of foreign workers, but i was watching a documentary about that on al jazeera english on how the greedy contractors responsible do play games, dont pay thier employees money, and keep them in cramped and dirty conditions. this was in regards to construction workers only.

worker abuse happens, and i think its the worst in the construction business, where recruiters in India are i cohuts with greedy contractors in the gulf. so maybe after al jazeera aired that documentary last week the Gulf governments will take some sort of action against them.

Governments won't do anything. They'll do very little, especially in the UAE (and I can only talk about the UAE really). First of all, they want to attract business. The ones who run construction companies are rich businessmen from India, the UK and a few well-known Palestinian individuals. To start a business in the UAE, you need an Emirati "partner". The "partner" is a paper-requirement and only receives a commission for the license issued by the UAE's Ministry of Labour, which otherwise would not license a business without that Emirati partner.

The government will readily punish UAE nationals for any abuse, because they know that no matter what, UAE nationals will not shift their business to another country. With foreigners, it's risky. The government wants profit. They like to interfere very little in private companies that are run by foreigners, in order for them to stay and create more business. It's a nice place for greedy people, I admit. No taxes, long-leases, minimum government interference, no minimum wage laws ... etc. People in the government are probably thinking, "If their own governments don't care about them, and their own people are abusing them, who are we to interfere?"

That's not to say the government hasn't done anything to look good in front of the international community. They are fining violating companies that do not give mid-day break to labourers. They've opened, for the first time, a new department in Dubai Police (The Human Rights Department), which deals with such abuses by sponsors. I can testify, having worked there, that they do a lousy job. But that's a good start. People do come in and complain.

[GOTFIVEONIT]

about two years ago we employed an illegal mexican carpenter to come and remodel my house. he was working on a weekly salary - for cheap of course. I was more concerned with the work he was doing, and keeping a happy worker, because he was a professional and his work was good and most of all, because he was illegal he worked cheap. I would even drive him home every night. He even came to see me as a friend. The bottom line is, if anyone has an employee working for them, if they do good work, the employer should appreciate that instead of just focusing on getting thier money's worth out of it.

like someone wrote earlier, anyone working for a desi is the worst, because a desi will milk you out for every dime he is spending on you and many times will even cheat you out of your money. Just the other day after jummah, one paki guy i know was fighting on the phone with his desi employer who was refusing to pay him his check for the week. i told him to go file a complaint with the department of labor because what he is doing is illegal and can get into big trouble over it.