[roberto]

Gordon Brown promises Israel he will take the lead in preventing a nuclear Iran
By David Blair and Melissa Kite in Jerusalem
Last updated: 3:49 PM BST 21/07/2008
Gordon Brown has promised that Britain will take the lead in introducing firmer sanctions to prevent Iran from becoming a nuclear power.
In the first speech by a British prime minister to the Knesset, Mr Brown proclaimed himself a "friend of Israel" who would increase the pressure on Tehran until President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad halted his atomic programme.

"Our country will continue to lead, with the US and our European partners in our determination to prevent an Iranian nuclear weapons programme. We stand ready to lead in taking firmer sanctions," he said.

Talks at the weekend between Iran's nuclear negotiator and representatives of America and the world's leading powers ended inconclusively without agreement. Mr Brown stressed that tougher action will be taken unless Iran complies with four United Nations Resolutions and stops enriching uranium.

Turning on Mr Ahmadinejad, the Prime Minister said: "To those who believe that threatening statements fall upon indifferent ears we say in one voice that it is totally abhorrent for the President of Iran to call for Israel to be wiped from the map of the world."

Mr Brown stressed his own personal attachment to Israel, recalling how his father, a Church of Scotland Minister, paid frequent visits to the country. "For the whole of my life, I have counted myself a friend of Israel".

He added: "Britain is your true friend. A friend in difficult times as well as in good times, a friend who will stand beside you whenever your peace, your stability and your existence are under threat; a friend who shares an unbreakable partnership based on shared values of liberty, democracy and justice.

"Britain and Israel continue to stand together. So to those who question Israel's right to exist and threaten the lives of its citizens through terror we say: the people of Israel have a right to live here, to live freely and to live in security."

However, Mr Brown added that Israel itself needed to make concessions to its neighbours to secure "a historic hard won and lasting peace" which had been brought within reach by the cooperation of Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas - Israel's "best partner of a generation".

He urged Israel to create the conditions for a final agreement by "freezing, and withdrawing from settlements."

He added "like many of your friends, I urge you to make these decisions."

One member of the Israeli parliament heckled as Mr Brown delived what he described as his "honest analysis."

The prime minister had tried to begin his speech in Hebrew but struggled with the pronunciation of "nazal tov", or good fortunes, and "shalon Aleichem" or peace to unto you.

Story from Telegraph News:
Gordon Brown promises Israel he will take the lead in preventing a nuclear Iran - Telegraph

[Bluestar]

This was disappointing.

[Kaminyu]

Originally Posted by roberto

Gordon Brown promises Israel he will take the lead in preventing a nuclear Iran
By David Blair and Melissa Kite in Jerusalem
Last updated: 3:49 PM BST 21/07/2008
Gordon Brown has promised that Britain will take the lead in introducing firmer sanctions to prevent Iran from becoming a nuclear power.
In the first speech by a British prime minister to the Knesset, Mr Brown proclaimed himself a "friend of Israel" who would increase the pressure on Tehran until President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad halted his atomic programme.

"Our country will continue to lead, with the US and our European partners in our determination to prevent an Iranian nuclear weapons programme. We stand ready to lead in taking firmer sanctions," he said.

Talks at the weekend between Iran's nuclear negotiator and representatives of America and the world's leading powers ended inconclusively without agreement. Mr Brown stressed that tougher action will be taken unless Iran complies with four United Nations Resolutions and stops enriching uranium.

Turning on Mr Ahmadinejad, the Prime Minister said: "To those who believe that threatening statements fall upon indifferent ears we say in one voice that it is totally abhorrent for the President of Iran to call for Israel to be wiped from the map of the world."

Mr Brown stressed his own personal attachment to Israel, recalling how his father, a Church of Scotland Minister, paid frequent visits to the country. "For the whole of my life, I have counted myself a friend of Israel".

He added: "Britain is your true friend. A friend in difficult times as well as in good times, a friend who will stand beside you whenever your peace, your stability and your existence are under threat; a friend who shares an unbreakable partnership based on shared values of liberty, democracy and justice.

"Britain and Israel continue to stand together. So to those who question Israel's right to exist and threaten the lives of its citizens through terror we say: the people of Israel have a right to live here, to live freely and to live in security."

However, Mr Brown added that Israel itself needed to make concessions to its neighbours to secure "a historic hard won and lasting peace" which had been brought within reach by the cooperation of Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas - Israel's "best partner of a generation".

He urged Israel to create the conditions for a final agreement by "freezing, and withdrawing from settlements."

He added "like many of your friends, I urge you to make these decisions."

One member of the Israeli parliament heckled as Mr Brown delived what he described as his "honest analysis."

The prime minister had tried to begin his speech in Hebrew but struggled with the pronunciation of "nazal tov", or good fortunes, and "shalon Aleichem" or peace to unto you.

Story from Telegraph News:
Gordon Brown promises Israel he will take the lead in preventing a nuclear Iran - Telegraph

A few problems with this:

1) Iran doesn't have a nuclear weapons program.

2) Iran never threatened to "wipe Israel off the map".

As part of the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty, Iran is well within its rights to enrich uranium for civilian purposes. Furthermore, the NIE report confirms that Iran does not have any nuclear weapons program.

[roberto]

Originally Posted by Kaminyu

A few problems with this:

1) Iran doesn't have a nuclear weapons program.

2) Iran never threatened to "wipe Israel off the map".

As part of the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty, Iran is well within its rights to enrich uranium for civilian purposes. Furthermore, the NIE report confirms that Iran does not have any nuclear weapons program.

Iran leader defends Israel remark

Protesters in Tehran burned Israeli flags
Iran's president has defended his widely criticised call for Israel to be "wiped off the map".
Attending an anti-Israel rally in Tehran, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said his remarks were "just" - and the criticism did not "have any validity".

His initial comment provoked anger from many governments, and prompted Israel to demand Iran's expulsion from the UN.

Egypt said they showed "the weakness of the Iranian government". A Palestinian official also rejected the remarks.

Defiant rally

Tens of thousands of Iranians took part in the rally in Tehran which Iran organises every year on the last Friday of the fasting month of Ramadan to show solidarity with the Palestinian struggle.

Shouting "Death to Israel, death to the Zionists", the protesters dragged Israeli flags along the ground and then set them on fire.

Palestinians recognise the right of the state of Israel to exist and I reject his comments



Many carried posters and placards sporting the slogan "Israel should be wiped off the map".

Joining the protest, Mr Ahmadinejad said: "My words were the Iranian nation's words.

"Westerners are free to comment, but their reactions are invalid," Mr Ahmadinejad told the official Irna news agency.

BBC NEWS | World | Middle East | Iran leader defends Israel remark

[Kaminyu]

Originally Posted by roberto

Iran leader defends Israel remark

Protesters in Tehran burned Israeli flags
Iran's president has defended his widely criticised call for Israel to be "wiped off the map".
Attending an anti-Israel rally in Tehran, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said his remarks were "just" - and the criticism did not "have any validity".

His initial comment provoked anger from many governments, and prompted Israel to demand Iran's expulsion from the UN.

Egypt said they showed "the weakness of the Iranian government". A Palestinian official also rejected the remarks.

Defiant rally

Tens of thousands of Iranians took part in the rally in Tehran which Iran organises every year on the last Friday of the fasting month of Ramadan to show solidarity with the Palestinian struggle.

Shouting "Death to Israel, death to the Zionists", the protesters dragged Israeli flags along the ground and then set them on fire.

Palestinians recognise the right of the state of Israel to exist and I reject his comments



Many carried posters and placards sporting the slogan "Israel should be wiped off the map".

Joining the protest, Mr Ahmadinejad said: "My words were the Iranian nation's words.

"Westerners are free to comment, but their reactions are invalid," Mr Ahmadinejad told the official Irna news agency.

BBC NEWS | World | Middle East | Iran leader defends Israel remark

Well, considering that "wiping Israel off the map" isn't exactly what he said in the first place, as the word "map" was never used, the criticism with regards to is automatically invalid. The closest translation to what the Iranian President actually said is, "The regime occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time". Expressing hope that a regime would fall, isn't the same thing as threatening to attack it. If he's going to be criticized for expressing his sentiment about a regime, then the millions of others who do the same, should be criticized as well.

[roberto]

Originally Posted by Kaminyu

Well, considering that "wiping Israel off the map" isn't exactly what he said in the first place, as the word "map" was never used, the criticism with regards to is automatically invalid. The closest translation to what the Iranian President actually said is, "The regime occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time". Expressing hope that a regime would fall, isn't the same thing as threatening to attack it. If he's going to be criticized for expressing his sentiment about a regime, then the millions of others who do the same, should be criticized as well.

Rather than arguing over the exact words used by Iran, why don’t you face up to their intentions and the intentions of others such as Hezbollah and Hamas who blatantly wish to destroy Israel

[Kaminyu]

Originally Posted by roberto

Rather than arguing over the exact words used by Iran, why don’t you face up to their intentions and the intentions of others such as Hezbollah and Hamas who blatantly wish to destroy Israel

As I said, "Expressing hope that a regime would fall, isn't the same thing as threatening to attack it." I think the Israeli regime should fall as well, as do millions of other people. So what? Just because regimes exist, doesn't mean that no one should express their negative sentiments about them.

I don't know what the intentions of the Iranian government or Hezbollah are. I only know what I see, and all I see from Iran, is that they're hoping the Israeli regime falls, and enriching uranium for civilian purposes. All I see from Hezbollah, is them defending Lebanon against invasion from Israel. If I am to determine their intentions based on my observations, then I must conclude that both are primarily focused on the defense and prosperity of their own countries.

But what you need to face, is the actions of rogue nations like Israel. They actually do have/make nuclear weapons, and actually are war-mongers. Plus, they steal land from other people, and build illegal settlements on them. They also aren't very loyal to their "allies" nor all of their agreements.

Israel is the one that really, truly deserves the kind've treatment that Iran is getting.

[roberto]

Originally Posted by Kaminyu

As I said, "Expressing hope that a regime would fall, isn't the same thing as threatening to attack it." I think the Israeli regime should fall as well, as do millions of other people. So what? Just because regimes exist, doesn't mean that no one should express their negative sentiments about them.

.

So it’s just the fall of the existing regime is it, I would suggest its genocide (obliteration) we would be seeing

I don’t have time as of now other than to provide you with this but evidence of such similar aims by Iran and Hezbollah are there for those who are willing to face the truth
Hamas Covenant 1988
The Covenant
of the
Islamic Resistance Movement
18 August 1988
In The Name Of The Most Merciful Allah
"Ye are the best nation that hath been raised up unto mankind: ye command that which is just, and ye forbid that which is unjust, and ye believe in Allah. And if they who have received the scriptures had believed, it had surely been the better for them: there are believers among them, but the greater part of them are transgressors. They shall not hurt you, unless with a slight hurt; and if they fight against you, they shall turn their backs to you, and they shall not be helped. They are smitten with vileness wheresoever they are found; unless they obtain security by entering into a treaty with Allah, and a treaty with men; and they draw on themselves indignation from Allah, and they are afflicted with poverty. This they suffer, because they disbelieved the signs of Allah, and slew the prophets unjustly; this, because they were rebellious, and transgressed." (Al-Imran - verses 109-111).
Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it" (The Martyr, Imam Hassan al-Banna, of blessed memory).
The Avalon Project : Hamas Covenant 1988

[Kaminyu]

Originally Posted by roberto

So it’s just the fall of the existing regime is it, I would suggest its genocide (obliteration) we would be seeing

And do you suppose this "genocide" would be any worse than the genocide Israel is engaging in against the Palestinians?

That doesn't seem very likely, since neither Iran nor Hezbollah share the same racist views that Israel does.

I don’t have time as of now other than to provide you with this but evidence of such similar aims by Iran and Hezbollah are there for those who are willing to face the truth
Hamas Covenant 1988
The Covenant
of the
Islamic Resistance Movement
18 August 1988
In The Name Of The Most Merciful Allah
"Ye are the best nation that hath been raised up unto mankind: ye command that which is just, and ye forbid that which is unjust, and ye believe in Allah. And if they who have received the scriptures had believed, it had surely been the better for them: there are believers among them, but the greater part of them are transgressors. They shall not hurt you, unless with a slight hurt; and if they fight against you, they shall turn their backs to you, and they shall not be helped. They are smitten with vileness wheresoever they are found; unless they obtain security by entering into a treaty with Allah, and a treaty with men; and they draw on themselves indignation from Allah, and they are afflicted with poverty. This they suffer, because they disbelieved the signs of Allah, and slew the prophets unjustly; this, because they were rebellious, and transgressed." (Al-Imran - verses 109-111).
Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it" (The Martyr, Imam Hassan al-Banna, of blessed memory).
The Avalon Project : Hamas Covenant 1988

That's Hamas, which is neither Hezbollah nor Iran, and I'm sure Israel had the same level of animosity towards them anyway. If Israel weren't such an abominable rogue-state that thrives on conflict, it wouldn't have so many enemies.

Plus, that quote is a little too general. Do you have anything more specific, like "we will attack/invade Israel"? That's an actual threat.

[dreamdeferred]

I'm always fascinated by the extent to which Iran has been cast in the role of "aggressor" according to the mainstream media narrative. It's truly interesting stuff.

I wouldn't be surprised if Iran was actually trying to acquire nuclear weaponry inspite of their insistence to the contrary.....but unfortunately this is what many countries are forced to do in order deter arbitrary intervention by hegemonic nations. (that's right folks jinnz doesn't have a copyright on this word)

What documented action(s) has Iran taken against Israel the United States or Britain? Remember conjecture about mistranslated and sensational interpretations don't count. Conversely what documented action(s) has been taken against Iran by the aforementioned countries? Hint.....go back about 60 years.

Specifically with regards to the widely criticized (and incorrectly translated) comments of Ahmedenijad.....check this article out.

Lost in translation | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk

[roberto]

[quote=Kaminyu;188055]

And do you suppose this "genocide" would be any worse than the genocide Israel is engaging in against the Palestinians?

I have not made a comparison, but have merely maintained that Israel is under threat of obliteration by factors in the Middle East such as Iran, Hezbollah and Hamas

That's Hamas, which is neither Hezbollah nor Iran

,

Why are you telling me that Hamas is neither Hezbollah nor Iran?

an I'm sure Israel had the same level of animosity towards them anyway.

Can you provide an Israeli government statement to substantiate this belief

If Israel weren't such an abominable rogue-state that thrives on conflict, it wouldn't have so many enemies

"thrives on conflict", Please explain

Plus, that quote is a little too general. Do you have anything more specific, like "we will attack/invade Israel"? That's an actual threat

What quote are you talking about what I provoded was URL for the Hamas Covenant 1988 plus an extract

[Kaminyu]

Originally Posted by roberto

I have not made a comparison, but have merely maintained that Israel is under threat of obliteration by factors in the Middle East such as Iran, Hezbollah and Hamas

No, they are under a perceived threat of obliteration. That doesn't make it an actual threat.

Why are you telling me that Hamas is neither Hezbollah nor Iran?

Because, we were only talking about Hezbollah and Iran, and so mentioning Hamas is a red herring, as it is not really related to either.

Can you provide an Israeli government statement to substantiate this belief

Actions speak louder than words. They don't have an official government statement mentioning their holocaust against the Palestinians, but that doesn't mean it isn't happening.

If Israel didn't feel the same way, they wouldn't have assassinated Hamas leaders, and would be very much open to talks with them.

"thrives on conflict", Please explain

Israel needs conflict so they can use the "we have a right to defend ourselves" excuse for its despicable actions. If they have no conflict, they have no excuse, and have no choice but to be cooporate fully with peace initiatives. Then they would be exposed as the vile, abominable rogue-state that they are, which would then undermine their very existence.

What quote are you talking about what I provoded was URL for the Hamas Covenant 1988 plus an extract

What you had bolded:

"Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it"