[roberto]

Enoch Powell: the Great Lie survives
By Simon Heffer


Sunday is the 40th anniversary of perhaps the most significant speech made in British politics since the Second World War: Enoch Powell's "Rivers of Blood" speech.

It is also, therefore, near to the 40th anniversary of one of the greatest lies in British politics since the Second World War: that this remarkably accurate prediction of the dangers of enforced multiculturalism has "prevented" a rational debate on immigration, since anyone who seeks to engage in it will be branded as a "racist".

It would be a comfort if this position were merely ignorant. It isn't. Powell is used by the Left - and that includes many people in the Conservative Party - as a cynical excuse to conceal their own failures in imposing proper immigration controls and maintaining social cohesion.

They start by saying Powell was a racist, which is also a deliberate lie. They then say that anyone who mentions immigration will now be tarred with that brush, which must therefore be a lie as well. This is convenient for those who have betrayed the people of this country by imposing an immigrant community so large upon it that it struggles to integrate - and, indeed, who have betrayed many of those immigrants too. Yet it won't wash.

Long before Powell made his speech - which ought to be issued to every home in the land, since I rarely hear it quoted anything other than completely inaccurately - there was a code of silence about immigration. Long before we knew the term "political correctness", it was viewed as simply impolite to raise the subject.

Powell reported in his speech what he found to be the alarmingly strong views some of his constituents in Wolverhampton had about mass immigration, the way it was affecting their lives and the strain it was putting on local public services. He said he knew there would be "a chorus of execration" that he could say such things. But he asked a more important question as an MP whose electors bring him a deeply unsettling problem: by what right, instead, would he have remained silent?



Powell had served in India in the 1940s. He fell in love with the country, its cultures and its peoples so profoundly that he wished to spend the rest of his life there. He learned to speak two Indian languages fluently. This does not stop point-scoring spud-thick politicians accusing him of racism, bigotry and other vices. A few months ago it did not stop the poseur who leads the Tory party sacking one of his parliamentary candidates for saying that Powell was right. Soon, Dave will be booting out people who say the Pope is Catholic.

Many of our immigrants have assimilated over the past 40 years. Equally, many have chosen not to. Four of them murdered 52 innocent people on London's public transport network nearly three years ago. Others, according to the police and the security services, are busily engaged in trying to repeat the incident. So far they have been thwarted: but for how long?

This is all the legacy of those who refused to take Powell seriously; of militant Leftists who mischievously cry "racism" to avoid any sensible debate on immigration; of well-heeled politicians who saw no harm in driving millions of poor immigrants into ghettos, with a perfect disregard for their welfare and for that of the people already living in those places; and of ministers in this very Government who for years saw no reason to enforce immigration controls at all, in the interests of deliberately destroying our national identity.

Powell was the greatest Conservative thinker in political life in living memory. He foresaw what were then unimaginable tensions caused by forcibly altering the character of a country. We should remember him tomorrow with enhanced respect. For he was right

Enoch Powell: the Great Lie survives - Telegraph

[LEGALEAGLE]

Can somebody trash this thread. He's promoting a fascist racist on this website who was expelled from his own party because of his racism.

[Bluestar]

We don't know whether he's promoting it, he's just bought it to a discussion board but it doesn't mean the article he's posting reflects his views. Then again, he does read the Daily Mail

The only thing that article poses as Powells defense is the fact he visited India. Personally, i think Powell was the sort of person who'd try to go out there to "civilise" everyone. Everyone apart from himself

[roberto]

Originally Posted by LEGALEAGLE

Can somebody trash this thread. He's promoting a fascist racist on this website who was expelled from his own party because of his racism.

Let us all benefit from your reading of the actual speech by identifying for us what he said, as distinct from quotations, that was racist and fascist.

It is topical so:

Do not fear debate

Do not stifle debate.

[Jamroll]

Originally Posted by Bluestar

The only thing that article poses as Powells defense is the fact he visited India. Personally, i think Powell was the sort of person who'd try to go out there to "civilise" everyone. Everyone apart from himself

Exactly. Let's not forget some of the people who "loved India" were also the people who carried out atrocities against the people of India. Thanks but, that kind of partronising, narcissistic "love", the people of the Indian subcontinent can do without, if its all the same to the "lover".

[roberto]

Originally Posted by Jamroll

Exactly. Let's not forget some of the people who "loved India" were also the people who carried out atrocities against the people of India. Thanks but, that kind of partronising, narcissistic "love", the people of the Indian subcontinent can do without, if its all the same to the "lover".

You obviously prefer to side track

[roberto]

[quote=Bluestar;126922]

We don't know whether he's promoting it, he's just bought it to a discussion board but it doesn't mean the article he's posting reflects his views. Then again, he does read the Daily Mail

Thanks I also read a lot of other papers.

The only thing that article poses as Powells defense is the fact he visited India. Personally, i think Powell was the sort of person who'd try to go out there to "civilise" everyone. Everyone apart from himself

Defence of what, please be specific

[Jamroll]

Originally Posted by roberto

You obviously prefer to side track

It's not a sidetrack. It's a relevant issue. If Powell was a racist, his views on immigration are tainted by this racist view, and his arguments are then redundant.

The author of the article is claiming that Powell was not a racist, and the proof he offers for that is that Powell loved his time in India and even learnt two Indian languages. That is not sufficient proof that he was not a racist, and I addressed the reason for this in my previous post. He was a racist, his views were racist, and thus any contributions from him on the immigration debate are marginal and defunct.

[roberto]

Originally Posted by Jamroll

The author of the article is claiming that Powell was not a racist, and the proof he offers for that is that Powell loved his time in India and even learnt two Indian languages. That is not sufficient proof that he was not a racist, and I addressed the reason for this in my previous post. He was a racist, his views were racist, and thus any contributions from him on the immigration debate are marginal and defunct.

This is putting the cart before the horse (I assume you are aware of this saying)

You cannot just start with the assumption that he was a racist you have to prove that he was and then and only then can you claim that his views on immigration are tainted and even then you have to prove that they were.

Now again I invite you to read his speech and make comment on specifics, who knows we might actually agree on some of the issues

Your hatred of the British Empire has emerged on other occasions and it distorts your view, however that is another subject.

[Jamroll]

Originally Posted by roberto

Your hatred of the British Empire has emerged on other occasions and it distorts your view, however that is another subject.

Your hatred of Islam, Muslims, blacks, and other ethnic minorities has emerged on other occasions, including in this thread, and it distorts your view, however that is another subject.

[roberto]

Originally Posted by Jamroll

Your hatred of Islam, Muslims, blacks, and other ethnic minorities has emerged on other occasions, including in this thread, and it distorts your view, however that is another subject.

Pathetic childish parroting.

I repeat my invitation

Now again I invite you to read his speech and make comment on specifics, who knows we might actually agree on some of the issues

[LEGALEAGLE]

I repeat Powell was a racist.

Witness his comments about 'the black man will soon have the whip hand over the white man'

He was writing that crap in between sending love poems to his Greek master at Oxbridge

[Bluestar]

Originally Posted by roberto

Thanks I also read a lot of other papers.

I was teasing

Defence of what, please be specific

defence of powell being racist. It's obviously written as a defending article Very poorly written.

Originally Posted by roberto

Thanks I also read a lot of other papers.

I was teasing

Defence of what, please be specific

defence of powell being racist. It's obviously written as a defending article Very poorly written.

What kind of a man supports immigration only so they can take the lower jobs in society, so the white people don't have to do them? Let's these immigrants land in southampton and give them £10 and a free rail ticket to go anywhere other than live in southampton because it was a proud, white city. These slums were created and then when they became isolated and threatened by the culture that they were confronted with, they were blamed for isolating themselves and not interacting with those around them.

When indian/punjabi people came, their families often had to share room and beds with other families. Sleeping in them when the other person did a night shift or sharing them with people they didn't even know. There weren't english classes to help them integrate and brown people were stuck with the concept that they had been invited to work in a society where they were not wanted. Many of them were educated to degree level but still wouldn't have a hope in getting any job other than one in a factory.

Yes, these were most societal problems but what did Powell do to ease them? Nothing. Apart from learn two indian languages, great. I don't choose to glorify Powell and overlook the suffering of my grand/forefathers, the same way people do with Churchill (a ponce that he was).

[roberto]

[quote=LEGALEAGLE;127315]

I repeat Powell was a racist.

Witness his comments about 'the black man will soon have the whip hand over the white man'

They were not his remarks; this is the paragraph:

A week or two ago I fell into conversation with a constituent, a middle-aged, quite ordinary working man employed in one of our nationalised industries.

After a sentence or two about the weather, he suddenly said: "If I had the money to go, I wouldn't stay in this country." I made some deprecatory reply to the effect that even this government wouldn't last for ever; but he took no notice, and continued: "I have three children, all of them been through grammar school and two of them married now, with family. I shan't be satisfied till I have seen them all settled overseas. In this country in 15 or 20 years' time the black man will have the whip hand over the white man."

He was writing that crap in between sending love poems to his Greek master at Oxbridge

And your point is?

And you wonder why I refer to you as Sparrow

[roberto]

[quote=Bluestar;127367]

What kind of a man supports immigration only so they can take the lower jobs in society, so the white people don't have to do them? Let's these immigrants land in southampton and give them £10 and a free rail ticket to go anywhere other than live in southampton because it was a proud, white city. These slums were created and then when they became isolated and threatened by the culture that they were confronted with, they were blamed for isolating themselves and not interacting with those around them.

I have search Enoch Powell speech and cannot find the above

When indian/punjabi people came, their families often had to share room and beds with other families. Sleeping in them when the other person did a night shift or sharing them with people they didn't even know. There weren't english classes to help them integrate and brown people were stuck with the concept that they had been invited to work in a society where they were not wanted. Many of them were educated to degree level but still wouldn't have a hope in getting any job other than one in a factory.

I have search Enoch Powell speech and cannot find the above, however there is this


Enoch Powell's 'Rivers of Blood' speech
Last Updated: 12:01am GMT 06/11/2007Page 3 of 3



Nothing is more misleading than comparison between the Commonwealth immigrant in Britain and the American Negro. The Negro population of the United States, which was already in existence before the United States became a nation, started literally as slaves and were later given the franchise and other rights of citizenship, to the exercise of which they have only gradually and still incompletely come. The Commonwealth immigrant came to Britain as a full citizen, to a country which knew no discrimination between one citizen and another, and he entered instantly into the possession of the rights of every citizen, from the vote to free treatment under the National Health Service.

Whatever drawbacks attended the immigrants arose not from the law or from public policy or from administration, but from those personal circumstances and accidents which cause, and always will cause, the fortunes and experience of one man to be different from another's.

Hardly the writings of a racist

Yes, these were most societal problems but what did Powell do to ease them? Nothing. Apart from learn two indian languages, great. I don't choose to glorify Powell and overlook the suffering of my grand/forefathers, the same way people do with Churchill (a ponce that he was

Sorry but now you are not just being inaccurate you are being silly and childish how can you lay the limitations of the welfare state at Powell feet.

Read the speech with an open mind, because like it, or not, much of what he forecast so-be-it at a lower level has come into being.