[Hanbali]

Age of Marriage in Christianity

In the Journal of Psychology and Human Sexuality, we read:

• Age of Consent: A Historical Overview

• Abstract: Age of Consent throughout history has usually coincided with the age of puberty although at sometimes it has been as early as seven. Early on age of consent was a familial or tribal matter and only became a legal one in the Greco-Roman period. The Roman tradition served as the base for Christian Europe as well as the Christian Church itself which generally, essentially based upon biological development, set it at 12 or 14 but continued to set the absolute minimum at seven. In the past century there has been a tendency to raise the age of consent but the reasons for the change have not always been clear and the issue has been further complicated by the reluctance of many contemporary historians to recognize what the actual age of consent in the past has been. This failure has distorted the importance of biology on age of consent in the past.

• (Age of Consent: A Historical Overview, http://www.haworthpress.com/store/ArticleAbstract.asp?sid=XH16E3FKBF7Q9P3MKLPC82LUJN KC41U5&ID=87429)

We read further:

• Christian canon law followed Roman law in setting the minimum age of marriage at twelve for females and fourteen for males. The logic behind these marital age limits was that these were the approximate ages of puberty for both genders, indicating readiness for procreation. In ancient Rome, among both pagans and Christians, marriage at an early age was frequent. Betrothals often occurred even before puberty, although the consummation of marriage through intercourse usually did not take place until after the girl’s first menstruation. Very often, the age of discrepancy of marriage partners was great. According to one historian, “the matching of a man with a woman young enough to be his daughter or even granddaughter was generally accepted.” [53]

• Medieval Christianity continued to maintain the age of twelve as a minimal age for females to enter into marriage. However, even this low age limit was not absolute. Using natural law logic, Catholic authorities argued that the decisive factor which determined a child's readiness for marriage and sexual relations was the onset of puberty, and not necessarily age as such. According to one Catholic scholar, “If it could be satisfactorily proved that puberty . . . was actually attained by the boy before the completion of his fourteenth year, or by the girl before the completion of her twelfth year, then . . . the party could enter upon a valid marriage.” [55]

• Sexual intercourse which took place before marital age limits or puberty was not necessarily illicit or sinful. On the contrary, some popes ruled that intercourse below the age of twelve/fourteen had the effect of sealing a marriage contract, as long as such intercourse took place after the age of discretion, which was seven. [56] Once intercourse had taken place, the marriage could not be annulled. In the twelfth century, Pope Alexander III ruled,

• • “If a girl of tender age is betrothed and delivered to her husband, and afterwards desires to marry a different man, her petition is not to be granted if her husband swears that he has had carnal knowledge of her even at the early age of eleven or twelve.” [57]

• Thus even for very young partners, the act of intercourse bound the two of them together for life. As one Catholic scholar has written, “carnal relations between the parties seemed to indicate sufficient maturity and made up for the defect of years.” [58] Sexual intercourse below the age of discretion (seven) was not a crime, but merely “invalid,” and thus, inconsequential, as under Jewish law. [59]

• Parents arranged marriages for their pre-pubescent children during the Middle Ages for a variety of dynastic, economic, and cultural reasons. [60] Such marriages were usually consummated at the age of twelve. Although physicians warned of the dangers of impregnating very young girls and implored husbands to wait until the wife reached the age of at least fourteen, such warnings usually went unheeded, and the Catholic Church continued to bless marital bonds with twelve-year-old girls. [61]

• Although technically the consent of the child was necessary for a marriage to take place, the child was usually not in a position to challenge his or her parents and resist an unwanted union. This led to a number of abuses which went unchallenged by the Church. In 1526, the Dutch scholar Erasmus complained,

• • “It is no uncommon case, especially in France, for a girl of scarce ten years to be married and a mother next year. . . . It seems portentous, and yet we sometimes see it, especially in Britain and Italy, that a tender child is married to a septuagenarian [i.e. a man in his seventies]. . . . Yet Church laws do not rescind such nuptials” [62]

• In later centuries, some Christian commentators would denounce sexual relations with young girls as being equivalent to rape. In the sixteenth century, canonist Egidio Bossi argued for this interpretation on the grounds that a child could hardly be considered as being in a position to give consent. However, he recommended that the age of consent be fixed at only six or seven years of age. [63]

• At the Council of Trent in the sixteenth century, there was some discussion among the Church leadership about possibly raising the age for marriage. Cardinal Charles De Guise of Lorraine, France, advocated raising the age of marriage for women to twenty and for men to twenty-five. The bishop of Cordia, Spain, argued for the ages of twenty for women and twenty-two for men. However, the majority of those on the Council were opposed to raising the age for marriage on the grounds that adolescents would be tempted to commit fornication unless they were permitted to marry. The conservatives prevailed: the age limit remained at twelve for females and fourteen for males. [64]

• (Mark E. Pietrzyk, http://www.internationalorder.org/scandal_response.html)

In a paper published at a symposium on Byzantine Studies, we read:

• Baptism, usually at birth, was the fundamental rite of incorporation into the body of Christ and the Church…Betrothal, sometimes as early as the age of five, marked another stage in the child’s social incorporation.

• (Byzantine Studies: 2006 Spring Symposium, http://www.doaks.org/byz_2006_symposium_abstracts.html )

[Hanbali]

(cont'd...)


It was not only allowed to marry at the age of puberty, but rather it was encouraged by the Church to marry at this young age. In an article entitled “The Practice and Theory of Marriage in Roman North Africa”, we read:

• Other canons require that lectors, upon reaching puberty, should either marry or take vows of celibacy.

• (The Practice and Theory of Marriage in Roman North Africa, http://people.vanderbilt.edu/~james.p.burns/chroma/marriage/huntermar.html)

In the article entitled “Marriage: Laws and Customs”, we read:

• Legal Age for Marriage

• Roman law gave the minimum age for marriage as that of puberty which was 14 for boys and 12 for girls; these remained the legal age for marriage until the late 19th Century in Britain…There is however evidence that child marriages were reasonably common in North West England in the 16th century…

• (Marriage: Laws and Customs, http://www.isle-of-man.com/manxnotebook/famhist/genealgy/marr.htm)

In an article entitled “Law, Sex, and Christian Society in Medieval Europe”, we read:

• Ordinary people who chose not to devote their lives to ascetic observances were often advised that their best defense against the ever present urge to copulate was to marry early. For this reason, St. Chrysostom warned parents to see to it that their children married soon after they reached the age of puberty.

• (Law, Sex, and Christian Society in Medieval Europe, http://www.pinn.net/~sunshine/book-sum/medevl1.html)

We have shown how the Jewish Encyclopedia says that under Jewish Law girls can marry at the age of twelve or even younger than that; let us now see what the Catholic Encyclopedia says of Christian laws with regards to marriage. The Catholic Encyclopedia says:

• The marriageable age is fourteen full years in males and twelve full years in females, under penalty of nullity (unless natural puberty supplies the want of years [i.e. if puberty occurs before the age of twelve])… The canonical age holds in England, Spain, Portugal, Greece (Ionian Isles excepted, where it is sixteen and fourteen), and as regards Catholics even in Austria. While in some parts of the United States the canonical marriage age of fourteen and twelve still prevails, in others it has been enlarged by statutes.

• (Catholic Encyclopedia, http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01206c.htm)

Elsewhere, the Catholic Encyclopedia says:

• By the common law, the age at which minors were capable of marrying, known as the age of consent, was fixed at fourteen years for males and twelve years for females. Marriages under the age of seven years for both were void, but between seven and the age of consent [14 for males, 12 for females] the parties could contract an imperfect marriage, which was voidable but not necessarily void.

• (Catholic Encyclopedia, http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09691b.htm)

[Hanbali]

Marriage of Pre-pubertal Girls in Christianity

Some Christians make a fuss over the fact that fathers can marry their pre-pubertal daughters under Islamic Law. We have already clarified this concept, by explaining that although the father can draft the marriage contract, it does not take effect until after the girl passes through the age of puberty, at which point in time, she has the option of either accepting the marriage or repudiating it. To put an end to the Christian allegations, we show them that this law exists in their own religion. We read in The Summa Theologica of St. Thomas Aquinas:

• If the parties are betrothed by another person [i.e. father] before they reach the age of puberty, either of them or both can demur; wherefore in that case the betrothal does not take effect, so that neither does any affinity result therefrom. Hence a betrothal made between certain persons by some other takes effect, in so far as those between whom the betrothal is arranged do not demur when they reach the proper age [i.e. age of puberty], whence they are understood to consent to what others have done.

• (The Summa Theologica of St. Thomas Aquinas, http://www.newadvent.org/summa/5043.htm)

C. Yandell writes in “Carpe Corpus: Time and Gender in Early Modern France”:

• In canon law, puberty normally determines marriageable age, although the minimum age for marriage is seven years, "the age of reason", when a child is deemed capable of consent. The lawyer Estienne Pasquier notes that the Digest compiled by Justinian specifies fourteen years for men, twelve for women, but, he adds, if one is capable of carnal cohabitation before this age, marriage is permitted.
  

• (Carpe Corpus: Time and Gender in Early Modern France, by Cathy Yandell p.37, http://books.google.com/books?id=YXs1A_xAXp8C&pg=PA37&lpg=PA37&dq=noblewom en+married+early&source=web&ots=q6KGHQigfa&sig=0Pv 95S0Z7pBtjVz9GZHbuWc53ho#PPP1,M1)

[thejellymill]

that is disgusting and cruel that anybody would sanction "intercourse" with a 3 year old.

edit: ignore the pre-edited version.

[Variable]

Originally Posted by Hanbali

Don't lie to me. I hate how you Christian hypocrites lie. Don't dare lie, because I will whoop you with the truth. Lying hypocrite Christians.

Who's a Christian here?

You never answered my question.

[Hanbali]

Originally Posted by Variable

Who's a Christian here?

Skinwalker is a Christian. I responded to his post.

And I will soon be getting under skinwalker's skin.

These Christian hypocrites attack our Noble Prophet [s] when they themselves haven't read their own Bible, which is full of Christian Prophets doing horrible things like having sex with their own daughters, murdering people in cold blood, having mad sex with concubines, and other such stuff. I will be responding like for like now. Fire with fire. The stupidity of the Christian hypocrites ticks me off.

You never answered my question.

The rule is the start of menstruation as long as it is not under age 9. That is how I recall it.

[Variable]

oki doki

.........

[Skinwalker]

Originally Posted by Hanbali

Skinwalker is a Christian. I responded to his post.

And I will soon be getting under skinwalker's skin.

These Christian hypocrites attack our Noble Prophet [s] when they themselves haven't read their own Bible, which is full of Christian Prophets doing horrible things like having sex with their own daughters, murdering people in cold blood, having mad sex with concubines, and other such stuff. I will be responding like for like now. Fire with fire. The stupidity of the Christian hypocrites ticks me off.

The rule is the start of menstruation as long as it is not under age 9. That is how I recall it.

I am not your standard WASP. You've made an assumption there. I'm Native American and worship the Great Spirit. I have not attacked your prophet at all. I'm just rather tired of people attacking each other over vague references and beliefs that are outdated and outmoded in today's world. For example the age of marriage. It is not mentioned in the Bible. It may be in the Talmud I don't know. Is it mentioned in the Quran? Why do you feel the need to justify your beliefs by attacking the beliefs of others? Your comparisons of marriage age have nothing to do with modern society. The age of consent and giving in marriage is a more realistic statistic than quoting religious verses.

[Skinwalker]

Oh and Hanabali, as for all the quotes about how marriage was practiced in centuries past by Christians, Jews, or Muslims is of no concern to me. What matters is what is happening now. I think that the idea of child marriage is child abuse. Short and simple.

[YOUSUFofSD]

Originally Posted by Skinwalker

Oh and Hanabali, as for all the quotes about how marriage was practiced in centuries past by Christians, Jews, or Muslims is of no concern to me. What matters is what is happening now. I think that the idea of child marriage is child abuse. Short and simple.

People think and believe a lot of things, doesn't mean its true or right. Just an observation.

[jinnzaman]

Originally Posted by Skinwalker

I am not your standard WASP. You've made an assumption there. I'm Native American and worship the Great Spirit. I have not attacked your prophet at all. I'm just rather tired of people attacking each other over vague references and beliefs that are outdated and outmoded in today's world. For example the age of marriage. It is not mentioned in the Bible. It may be in the Talmud I don't know. Is it mentioned in the Quran? Why do you feel the need to justify your beliefs by attacking the beliefs of others? Your comparisons of marriage age have nothing to do with modern society. The age of consent and giving in marriage is a more realistic statistic than quoting religious verses.

What makes a society "modern" and why should societies that are not "modern" strive to be "modern" and who decides what "modern" is?

[Skinwalker]

Originally Posted by jinnzaman

What makes a society "modern" and why should societies that are not "modern" strive to be "modern" and who decides what "modern" is?

In my original post, I referred to statistics which are practiced in today's modern world. I wasn't comparing societies. By modern in this sense, I was referring to what is happening in various countries today, as in this century or even in the latter part of the 20th century, hence this link: UNdata etc

In Yemen, the age of marriage is 15, so what happened to this girl is an atrocity.

So in regards to this thread, my use of modern refers to the 21st century. What happened in the past should be left in the past. Hanabali's statement about Christian and Judaic law is outdated in this sense, and that is what I meant.

[jinnzaman]

Originally Posted by Skinwalker

In my original post, I referred to statistics which are practiced in today's modern world. I wasn't comparing societies. By modern in this sense, I was referring to what is happening in various countries today, as in this century or even in the latter part of the 20th century, hence this link: UNdata etc

In Yemen, the age of marriage is 15, so what happened to this girl is an atrocity.

So in regards to this thread, my use of modern refers to the 21st century. What happened in the past should be left in the past. Hanabali's statement about Christian and Judaic law is outdated in this sense, and that is what I meant.

So modernity is defined by what other countries are doing? So in the 1930s, modernity would be defined by either right-wing or leftist movements. In the 1800s, by militarism and state expansion, etc. That seems incredibly subjective. If modernity is merely defined by contemporary consensus and such a consensus shifts every few years, that can hardly provide the basis for a morally "superior" system.

There has to be more to modernity then merely contemporary consensus between various nations on certain legal issues.