[Purple_alien]

I never wanted to go to a school with an MSA while I was in HS. In fact, if a school, like Rutgers sent me something, I immediately threw it away, because I didn't wanna be near the group. Then, I went to Syria and learned to love other Muslims, so I wanted to join an MSA. Unfortunately, my school doesn't have one. So I guess I got what I deserve.

[hijabihoodlum]

That can only happen if MSA is dominated by the hardcore types...

The death of MSA happens when those 'liberal Muslims' take over...man, why must they infiltrate our ranks? Isn't the Indian or Pakistani club good enough for them?

MSA's should be segregated.
MSA's should not compromise on Islam.

"dominated by the hardcore types" makes for a strong msa? in my experience, that's simply not the case. of course it does come down to what you think the purpose of an MSA is. oh noes for the liberal muslims "infiltrating" your ranks. the way you word things is amusing.

MSAs should not be segregated.
Islam is above any MSA and therefore cannot be compromised by one.

But if that mini-skirt is some Pakistani girl who is known as the resident ho of MSA...then of course she will get the dirty eye. We don't have a state yet so we can't go and whip her.

last i checked, "ho" was short for ***** (that's odd; i typed it in plural in the next sentence and the site censor didnt pick it up). whores sell sex. that's usually not the same as someone who wears miniskirts.

[hijabihoodlum]

Originally Posted by farah

wait wait wait. HOLD UP *screeching tires noise*


what do you each of you consider the purpose of MSA to be?

Thank you for digging out the root issue here.

The purpose? To provide a healthy atmosphere (within Islamic bounds) for Muslim students on college campuses to interact with each other and increase their understanding of the deen.

NOT the purpose:
- imposing islam on members (compulsion)
- converting people
- furthering non-indigenous cultural practices
- being an authority on Islam

My issue has been with trying to remind people that it is the MUSLIM student association and that it should serve Muslims in a positive way. There should be healthy dialogue between those crazy liberals, super conservatives, and everyone who thinks they're somewhere in between. It's not fair to have an MSA that caters only to a small section of Muslims; I feel that's selfish. I understand that many people want to strongly guard their beliefs and practices; that's great, we should all love al-Islam and strive to adhere to it, but it should *never* be at the expense of any other Muslim. And unfortunately, though we often don't face the realities we create, we do that- we alienate each other.

I remember coming into my MSA as a freshman and one of the first events I remember attending a board meeting for was a semester-beginning picnic, where we were discussing some arab girls who arrived in sleeveless tops and less than full length skirts. IN A BOARD MEETING? Brothers and sisters alike were expressing how wrong it was, that these girls could be so disrespectful, and that we needed to somehow mend this problem. God, I don't think I ever saw those girls (who are masha Allah incredibly sweet people) come to an MSA event again. Do people have no shame? Is it at all acceptable to discuss what other people wear in a meeting, if ever at all? Don't we have more important issues to address? World hunger, civil wars? Dear God.

And my experience has only been of 4 years on one campus. Can you imagine what we've inadvertently done to thousands upon thousands of our brothers and sisters across the nation? In masajid, anywhere there's Muslims? Do we realize how fragile our community is? Apparently there's no haya in judging. No shame. We're blinded by our own self-righteousness.

It's a love/hate relationship I have with the Muslim community; I want to see our situation improve but I can't stand it. It's important to me, though. I plan on being fiercely Muslim in this society for the rest of my life; I think America and Muslims were made for each other. America has the incredible ability to strip the culture away from just about anything- including Muslims. And Muslims, I feel, have such incredible tools and modes of thinking available to them through Islam. The synergy could be fantastic.

[ChotooMotoo]

Oooohhh... girls in less than full skirts!!! I know, lets ban girls who wear jeans too. That would mean YOU hijabihoodlam. Lets also ban girls who study anything other than home economics, since any other subject is useless for girls. While we're at it, lets just ban all girls.

[sixpakistan]

Originally Posted by ChotooMotoo

Oooohhh... girls in less than full skirts!!! I know, lets ban girls who wear jeans too. That would mean YOU hijabihoodlam. Lets also ban girls who study anything other than home economics, since any other subject is useless for girls. While we're at it, lets just ban all girls.

how does banning jeans, if worn modestly, follow from an objection to immodest clothing? how does banning women from education follow from it? i'm aware you were trying to make a point through sarcasm, but there is 0 logic/sense behind it.

[ChotooMotoo]

Originally Posted by sixpakistan

how does banning jeans, if worn modestly, follow from an objection to immodest clothing? how does banning women from education follow from it? i'm aware you were trying to make a point through sarcasm, but there is 0 logic/sense behind it.

It's about limits. And yes, I've heard people get upset about girls wearing jeans, ANY jeans, since for some reason there is no way to wear jeans modestly. There was zero logic/sense behind discussing peoples clothing at an MSA board meeting either. What kind of MSA do they have that they don't have more important issues to discuss than how people dress?

[hijabihoodlum]

Originally Posted by ChotooMotoo

It's about limits. And yes, I've heard people get upset about girls wearing jeans, ANY jeans, since for some reason there is no way to wear jeans modestly. There was zero logic/sense behind discussing peoples clothing at an MSA board meeting either. What kind of MSA do they have that they don't have more important issues to discuss than how people dress?

Let me redeem my MSA just a little though by saying that it is changing (for better or worse depends on who you are). Though I agree with both of you- there are limits, and commenting on clothing is bad.

[Pushpa]

Reading this thread makes me so relieved I don't have to go through all that MSA / ISOC (for the UK Muslims ) drama ever again... It was sooo draining at the time

[sixpakistan]

Originally Posted by ChotooMotoo

It's about limits.

So what? It still makes no sense. It's like saying "Ooh, a guy wearing less than knee length shorts! I know, let's ban guys who eat filet-o-fishes!" It's just dumb and nonsensical.

Originally Posted by ChotooMotoo

And yes, I've heard people get upset about girls wearing jeans, ANY jeans, since for some reason there is no way to wear jeans modestly.

Then that's a separate issue. If you want to criticize people who think jeans can't be worn modestly, that can't follow from/necessarily be associated with criticizing people who say wearing a less than full length skirt is immodest, because from an Islamic perspective, wearing less than a full length skirt is immodest without question.

Originally Posted by ChotooMotoo

There was zero logic/sense behind discussing peoples clothing at an MSA board meeting either. What kind of MSA do they have that they don't have more important issues to discuss than how people dress?

That's not really relevant to whether your point was valid.. "there was 0 logic/sense behind blah blah, so let me address blah blah with even less logic/sense"

Also, as an aside regarding whether it's important or not that people (guys & girls both, gotfiveonit-esque gender advocacy aside) are modestly dressed, remember that according to the Prophet (SAW), the innate character of our deen is modesty.. if part of the purpose of the MSA is to create an Islamic environment, it certainly is important.

[hijabihoodlum]

Originally Posted by sixpakistan

if part of the purpose of the MSA is to create an Islamic environment, it certainly is important.

would you say, then, that the purpose of MSA is to create an Islamic environment?

[sixpakistan]

Originally Posted by hijabihoodlum

would you say, then, that the purpose of MSA is to create an Islamic environment?

I dunno, I've never been in an MSA. Hence my usage of the word "if" .. I'd assume it was an aspect but not the entire purpose, hence my saying "part of the purpose."

[nooni]

wonderful posts hijabihoodlum

Originally Posted by sixpakistan

Then that's a separate issue. If you want to criticize people who think jeans can't be worn modestly, that can't follow from/necessarily be associated with criticizing people who say wearing a less than full length skirt is immodest, because from an Islamic perspective, wearing less than a full length skirt is immodest without question.
.

like i said before, there should be no problem bringing up the modesty issue when the MSA meetings or events are held in islamic environments, such as masjids and islamic community centers.

but when you are in a picnic area that is owned by a college that has rules stating it is perfectly ok to wear less than a full length skirt, you keep your mouth shut, ignore it and learn to live with it.

[farah]

just stumbled upon this while doing a search for the original article. haven't researched anything about it at all.

Soft Pedaling Radical Islam: The New York Times Discovers the MSA :: Articles by IPT :: The Investigative Project on Terrorism

i'd hope that many of those things were said out of context....but even then. wow. thoughts?

[IbnMardhiyah]

Originally Posted by farah

just stumbled upon this while doing a search for the original article. haven't researched anything about it at all.

Soft Pedaling Radical Islam: The New York Times Discovers the MSA :: Articles by IPT :: The Investigative Project on Terrorism

i'd hope that many of those things were said out of context....but even then. wow. thoughts?

In case you didn't notice ... the article is by Steven Emerson.