[ChotooMotoo]

Originally Posted by farah

wait wait wait. HOLD UP *screeching tires noise*


what do you each of you consider the purpose of MSA to be?

Because of University rules, the MSA shouldn't be any different than any other theemed campus club. Usually that means gathering people of like interest, holding activities pertaining to that interest (but within University guidelines) and in the case of our old MSA, helping the local Muslim community hold Eid parties. That basically makes the MSA a social club for Muslim students, and non-Muslim students who are interested (which is usually like zero, but the option is still open.) We had a lot of Christian organizations on our old campus, and they would hold events, even religious events, but everyone was welcome to attend provided they were respectful.

[nooni]

Originally Posted by Sugarberry

for a sister to give "helpful" advice to another sister " sister ummm....your sandals are attracting attention ....maybe you could wear socks next time you come to the MSA"

oooooh, fashion crime thread!! :P

Originally Posted by Jamroll

But at the same time, it doesn't seem fair to all the other Muslims, to allow the Islamic environment to be disrupted just so that we can be all-inclusive. There has to be a balance and a common-sense approach.

jammers and salika, i agree with alot of what ur both saying, but at the same time, i agree only if MSA events or MSA meetings were being held in a masjid or an Islamic community center.

But in general, MSA meetings or events are held in American Universities where it is appropriate to wear mini skirts to whatever room. I think Salika mentioned this (or jammers??) that if you show up to a Jewish meeting with a swastika tshirt, you will be called out on it cause it goes agaisnt the majority of University rules and is considered racist according to everyone. But mini skirts are not considered racist or inappropriate (according to American standards) in American Universities and their facilities. However, a masjid or islamic community center has rules and regulations about dress code, and therefore that would be considered disrespectful.

chootoomootoo mentioned that the University told their MSA to include women when they switched from Masjid board to School Board because it goes agiasnt school policy, its sexist (which it is), etc. So if someone comes in with a mini skirt to an MSA meeting and is given a hard time about it, she could easily fight the fact that she is being discriminated agaisnt in a school which ALLOWS mini skirts. the best thing to do would be to just let it slide/ignore it, go on with the MSA agenda meeting for the day, and let things be the way they are and pray for the best inshallah. i brought this up cause i saw a few posts that said there should come a time when ppl should be told what to wear.

[ChotooMotoo]

Originally Posted by nooni

chootoomootoo mentioned that the University told their MSA to include women when they switched from Masjid board to School Board because it goes agiasnt school policy, its sexist (which it is), etc. So if someone comes in with a mini skirt to an MSA meeting and is given a hard time about it, she could easily fight the fact that she is being discriminated agaisnt in a school which ALLOWS mini skirts. the best thing to do would be to just let it slide/ignore it, go on with the MSA agenda meeting for the day, and let things be the way they are and pray for the best inshallah. i brought this up cause i saw a few posts that said there should come a time when ppl should be told what to wear.

We had a reporter come to our masjid for Friday prayer, she was reporting on Muslims in our little community. She was wearing a knee-length business suit. Nobody said anything to her, just asked her to sit at the back of the hall. At another masjid I visitied, a college girl came in wearing jeans, and the auntie by the door made her put on a whole two piece prayer outfit, cuz she deemed her dress imodest. Every community is different. If you are affiliated with the University though, or your community is really under a microscope, I don't see that you have any choice but to be inclusive.

I think the most you can do is POLITELY ask the people to kindly cover their torsos, legs, and arms to the elbows, making sure that the rule goes for boys and girls. You can't force it, or make their appearance such an issue that they get forced out of the MSA, that wouldn't be fair.

[nooni]

Originally Posted by ChotooMotoo

I think the most you can do is POLITELY ask the people to kindly cover their torsos, legs, and arms to the elbows, making sure that the rule goes for boys and girls. You can't force it, or make their appearance such an issue that they get forced out of the MSA, that wouldn't be fair.

i dont think that would be a bad idea, just casually mention a few things on proper attire (like u said, the same thing for guys and girls) and let it be said ONLY once at the beginning of the semester. after that, its up to ppl what they wanna do.

[PhDGirl]

Originally Posted by nooni

i dont think that would be a bad idea, just casually mention a few things on proper attire (like u said, the same thing for guys and girls) and let it be said ONLY once at the beginning of the semester. after that, its up to ppl what they wanna do.

I think that's fine on an official level, but it's hard to stop the "helpful" comments like what Sugarberry and Laimuun mentioned because they are generally on a more casual basis. That's more about the culture of the MSA itself. This reminds me of when our community had a bunch of Bosnian refugees come in. Our Imam reminded everyone beforehand not to innundate them with advice because they were trying to adjust to so many things and we didn't want them to feel unwelcome at the masjid. Unfortunately, not everyone listened and a few of them stopped coming, which is a shame. I did some work with the families and I asked one of the moms about it and she said (well, translated through her son) that people were always telling her how to pray, what to wear etc etc and sometimes people's advice contradicted each other, so it was too overwhelming. I felt really badly about that.

[nooni]

Originally Posted by PhDGirl

Our Imam reminded everyone beforehand not to innundate them with advice because they were trying to adjust to so many things and we didn't want them to feel unwelcome at the masjid.

i wish more imams could be like that mashallah

[PhDGirl]

Originally Posted by nooni

i wish more imams could be like that mashallah

Yeah, he's pretty cool. I was part of the outreach group and we started something where we wanted to make more people feel welcome at the masjid and in the community and I was amazed at how many Muslims there were in our community that I hadn't seen before. It's just that they felt so excluded and people would lecture them etc, so they stopped coming. That kind of thing starts at the MSA, so if we can get people to feel part of the community in college, then we can keep their involvement when they leave academia so that they come to Juma, send their kids to Sunday School etc. That's also useful on a larger level if we think about Muslims having a voice in society and in the political process.

I'm the faculty advisor for our MSA and part of the masjid outreach group, so this is something I spend a lot of time on

[farah]

Originally Posted by PhDGirl

Yeah, he's pretty cool. I was part of the outreach group and we started something where we wanted to make more people feel welcome at the masjid and in the community and I was amazed at how many Muslims there were in our community that I hadn't seen before. It's just that they felt so excluded and people would lecture them etc, so they stopped coming. That kind of thing starts at the MSA, so if we can get people to feel part of the community in college, then we can keep their involvement when they leave academia so that they come to Juma, send their kids to Sunday School etc. That's also useful on a larger level if we think about Muslims having a voice in society and in the political process.

I'm the faculty advisor for our MSA and part of the masjid outreach group, so this is something I spend a lot of time on

so uh. anytime you wanna swing by my msa, that'd be fantastic. thanks.

[Sugarberry]

Originally Posted by PhDGirl

Okay, so since you seem to take issue with my post, if you were not categorizing people in your "Type A" vs "Type B" post then what were you doing? You made statements like "this person is sincere" as though you know their intentions and in an earlier post in this thread equated people who don't dress modestly (however you define it - not clear on what that is) to someone wearing a swastika shirt to a Jewish group event as though it was the same thing. If the goal is the least amount of headaches, then you're right, not being as inclusive does eliminate them because it takes out room for debate and discussion. The problem with the whole line of thinking is that it holds some people as the "judgers" as though they have some authority.

This is a great post.

And to answer farah's question

I feel like MSA's purpose is to provide an outlet for anybody who considers themselves muslim, to be around other muslim people and do "muslim" things and "fun" things that are not blatently Haram (like drugs, clubbing, and alcohol ) and help non-muslims get a better understanding of the daily lives of muslims and Islam AND be active in the University community.

[MossadConspiracy]

Originally Posted by Sugarberry

agreed that would be awsome. My msa is the second one....but I have be toying around with the idea of creating the first one

salam

the MSA used to be great. It was great for brothers anyway. actually it was the best thing by far about that school

the girls there seemed to be pretty stuck up and wierd (no offense to any stony sisters who read this board). But they seemed to be enjoying themselves too. I dunno if its different now

ws

[moonlightrose]

the brothers side of our MSA seems so much more cool than the sisters.

[bihari]

i agree with whoever it was who said that people shouldnt be shunned away because of their practices...i mean, it is better to be a muslim who drinks and gambles, than to not be muslim at all...and how else can people learn the right way unless they are accepted into muslim groups...if they arent accepted, they will turn away from islam. also, people make coed mixing a way bigger deal than it is...

[IbnMardhiyah]

I just slogged through six pages of discussion only to find that almost all the people here are pretty clueless when it comes to handling these type of people vis-a-vis MSAs. All the problems you guys are discussing - either way - are sales challenges. Its about gaining someone's trust and advising them to buy your idea [whatever it may be].

Sales & Marketing 101, hello?

At my school with had PR reps, guys and girls who I knew were relationship oriented and would have done fantastic in sales. They were very sociable, could click with a variety of different personality types and they're the ones we used to regulate the Muslim body of students. They would neither judge someone outright whether in public or private, and nor would they have the kumbaya attitude of "everything goes". They knew how to essentially, make Islam seem attractive, and cool. They spoke in terms relative to today's issues and contexts.

They had the natural gravitas that born leaders have, the outgoing personalities that's needed when you're dealing with large numbers of people in the public, the right mix of body language, voice dynamics and they were skilled with words. Any of them could get up in a crowded lecture hall and deliver a short spiel on the spot with no prep in advance. They knew how to handle different situations with skill and tact, and how to get things done. Like basically, they were Michael Clayton types, relative to the MSA of course.

Originally Posted by farah

wait wait wait. HOLD UP *screeching tires noise*

what do you each of you consider the purpose of MSA to be?

The purpose of an MSA should be to represent and advance the interests of the Muslims at the school in alignment with generally accepted Islamic principles [GIAP].

So, when it comes to giving the Muslim students a collective voice.
Liaising with the administration on behalf of all the Muslim students.
Being an authorized representative of the same.
Providing a forum for discussion.
Facilitating dawah and outreach events.
Providing that critical sense of Muslim identity on campus.
Teaching and inculcating proper leadership skills.
Providing stewardship of the local community.
Identifying soft and hard resources to be used in advancement of the goals stated above.

Yada yada yada.

the MSA should not just be a social club for Muslims, although it can provide that function as well, within proper parameters.

[NeoMuslim]

I know our MSA was super conservative. I used to be too but I think they should relax and let there be cross-gender communication/dialogue without the artificial sexual tension created by the spewing of ultra-conservative rhetoric. As long as its respectful, and within certain limits, it should be okay and not automatically zina waiting to happen insha Allah.
But then again what do I know?

[Revert]

I think the purpose of the MSA should eb the same of any Colle