[farah]

Originally Posted by hijabihoodlum

I like your first paragraph because I feel like it's sunnah. Subhanallah, if Muhammad (S) alienated people, we'd never be where we are.

I don't think socializing is un-Islamic. sure, there are specific actions that are haraam (fornication, lying, cheating, etc.), but who are we to decide that halaal actions are un-Islamic? what does UN-islamic mean, anyway?

that being said, i personally am very conservative in practice. just liberal in thought.

so, miniskirts and weed smokers and gamblers. you can certainly cower in a corner at the prospect of your muslim brothers and sisters partaking in activities you wouldnt, but does that get us anywhere? are we supposed to disown members of our own faith in order to maintain...our...own....faith? <--see the paradox here?

if we EVER expect to be effective- politically, socially, spiritually- as a group- muslims, here in the United States, then we really need to get past the pettiness of pointing fingers and judging each other.

i'm pretty similar to you ("liberal" in thought, "conservative" in action) and totally agree. i view MSA as a means by through which people can be brought to Islam -- and that's different for everyone. some people need MSAs that are more social (especially if they're away from their family and need others around to maintain that sense of family), others are attracted to Islam's amazing sense of social justice (so they may be more politically or charity oriented), others turn to MSA for knowledge (hence, the need for halaqas and speakers), others feel that connection through sooo many other means... i'm so tired of people telling me "the road to salvation is Islam and there's only one road in Islam," and I know so many other people who are the same.

don't organize events that are unislamic, but on that same note, don't assume that islam is exactly how you see it and that each person can only be brought closer to Allah through a single route. being open to people who are struggling in their deen and maintaining our own deen are NOT mutually exclusive; yes, it's difficult but man, it's necessary.

just my take

[Salahadeen]

Originally Posted by farah

i'm so tired of people telling me "the road to salvation is Islam and there's only one road in Islam," and I know so many other people who are the same.

It was narrated by Ibn Mas'ud that one day the Prophet (s) drew a straight line on the ground and said, " This is the path of Allah."

Then he (s) drew some lines to the left and right to it and said, "These are the erred paths and on each of these paths, there is Satan calling to it." Then he (s) recited the following verse from the Quran (which means):

"Verily, this is my Straight Path so follow it and do not follow the other paths that will take you away from the true path."

The Quranic verse in its entirety reads:

"And verily, this is my Straight Path, so follow it, and follow not other paths, for they will scatter you away from His path. This He has ordained for you that you may become pious."
(Qur’an 6:153)

[nooni]

Originally Posted by Salahadeen

I fear for the Muslim youth in America.

muslims are liek this all over, not just america.

Originally Posted by Variable

anyway, I'm kind of curious about where the MSA falls on the spectrum of the people here. If you went on like a ski trip or something, do you have assigned seating so no boys and girls are sitting together?

Is the mixing cool as long as it's in public and for a reason?

my MSA was so chill and cool, i loved them , i loved that we were friends outside of MSA too so we barely had ANY drama.

as for trips, we took some, no assigned seating, as long as you werent sitting veeeryyyy close to the opposite gender then all was good, but other than that, people spoke to each other normally.

there was some one who wanted to use the club money to have a sheesha event, and that was quickly shot down.

Originally Posted by Sugarberry

My msa is considerably conservative.....but I was willing to give a chance and tried to effect change by running for a position on the e-board.. but after i lost ( to a guy who compared himself to aladdin) I gave up on MSA ...and I have been much happier.

AHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Originally Posted by Salahadeen

The death of MSA happens when those 'liberal Muslims' take over...man, why must they infiltrate our ranks? Isn't the Indian or Pakistani club good enough for them?

ouch

Originally Posted by Salahadeen

MSA's should be segregated.

no it should not. and when it is, its a very big mistake. as SOON as MSA's are split, the voice or activation of the girls is decreased and put into the corner. if u can be in the same class with non muslim girls listening to a lecture, you can certainly be in the same room with muslim girls trying to better ur deen and encourage dawah.

Originally Posted by Salahadeen

If a Non-Muslim woman came in a mini-skirt, trust me, the MSA team would be falling all over themselves trying to give dawah, handing out fliers, pamphlets, books, etc.

i wouldnt call it dawah if the first thing ur telling the girl is that shes dressed unappropraitely

[farah]

Originally Posted by Salahadeen

It was narrated by Ibn Mas'ud that one day the Prophet (s) drew a straight line on the ground and said, " This is the path of Allah."

Then he (s) drew some lines to the left and right to it and said, "These are the erred paths and on each of these paths, there is Satan calling to it." Then he (s) recited the following verse from the Quran (which means):

"Verily, this is my Straight Path so follow it and do not follow the other paths that will take you away from the true path."

The Quranic verse in its entirety reads:

"And verily, this is my Straight Path, so follow it, and follow not other paths, for they will scatter you away from His path. This He has ordained for you that you may become pious."
(Qur’an 6:153)

right. but is there only one way to be brought to Islam? is there only one way to practice Islam? think about the different areas in which people focus their attention Islamically, and the different ways people feel closer to Allah SWT. everyone has different situations and different vices -- the key is to use the multi-faceted teachings of our Rasool (saw) to guide us through them, to ultimately establish a stronger connection to Allah SWT.

i guess if we're gonna get technical, there's one path, but like 84930284039280 different lanes

[Pushpa]

Originally Posted by hijabihoodlum

I like your first paragraph because I feel like it's sunnah. Subhanallah, if Muhammad (S) alienated people, we'd never be where we are.

I don't think socializing is un-Islamic. sure, there are specific actions that are haraam (fornication, lying, cheating, etc.), but who are we to decide that halaal actions are un-Islamic? what does UN-islamic mean, anyway?

that being said, i personally am very conservative in practice. just liberal in thought.

so, miniskirts and weed smokers and gamblers. you can certainly cower in a corner at the prospect of your muslim brothers and sisters partaking in activities you wouldnt, but does that get us anywhere? are we supposed to disown members of our own faith in order to maintain...our...own....faith? <--see the paradox here?

if we EVER expect to be effective- politically, socially, spiritually- as a group- muslims, here in the United States, then we really need to get past the pettiness of pointing fingers and judging each other.

Hi
When I said MSAs shoudlnt endorse unislamic activities, I meant that they should really think about any activities they are organising, to ensure that they are not encouraging behaviour that is inappropriate. This does not mean I think there shoudl be gender segregated seating at all events as I think separate seating doesn't really make much of a difference to mackers. But a gambling trip seems to me to be soemthing which an MSA should absolutely have nothing to do with. If people want to go on such a trip - nobody's stopping you, but it should not be endorsed by the MSA. Or, say the MSA organises a film-night or something - there should not be gratuitous / inappropriate content in the film being shown. I guess what I am trying to say is, an MSA should set a standard of conduct instead of being like, 'anything goes'.

[Jamroll]

Originally Posted by Salahadeen

The MSA should NOT be like other groups on campus. The MSA should be that elite group, the one place you can go to get some peace and tranquility, away from the chaos and fitnah that is out there...

That can only happen if MSA is dominated by the hardcore types...

The death of MSA happens when those 'liberal Muslims' take over...man, why must they infiltrate our ranks? Isn't the Indian or Pakistani club good enough for them?

Yeah I very much agree with this especially the bolded part. I think MSAs (or ISOCs as we call them in UK colleges) shouldn't compromise on the basics.

So if mini-skirt girl, and slot-machine girl, and weed-smoking boy, and the whole host of others, want to smoke their weed, play slot-machines and wear mini skirts then it's their right to do so, but that should stay out of the MSA. They should go to their Asian society, or Pakistani society, or Indian society which will accomodate that.

At the same time they can be part of the MSA, but when they come to the MSA they should respect that there is a different vibe going on in an Islamic environment. Wear your mini-skirts and smoke your weed, if you must, outside, but put that stuff away when you come to the MSA.

[Sugarberry]

Originally Posted by Jamroll

Yeah I very much agree with this especially the bolded part. I think MSAs (or ISOCs as we call them in UK colleges) shouldn't compromise on the basics.

So if mini-skirt girl, and slot-machine girl, and weed-smoking boy, and the whole host of others, want to smoke their weed, play slot-machines and wear mini skirts then it's their right to do so, but that should stay out of the MSA. They should go to their Asian society, or Pakistani society, or Indian society which will accomodate that.

At the same time they can be part of the MSA, but when they come to the MSA they should respect that there is a different vibe going on in an Islamic environment. Wear your mini-skirts and smoke your weed, if you must, outside, but put that stuff away when you come to the MSA.

right. So say their muslim....but werent raised in a muslim home ( meaning their parents only consider themselves muslim in name)....what if miniskirts and tight jeans are all they have? dont come to the msa at all?

[Jamroll]

Originally Posted by Sugarberry

right. So say their muslim....but werent raised in a muslim home ( meaning their parents only consider themselves muslim in name)....what if miniskirts and tight jeans are all they have? dont come to the msa at all?

Pretty much, yeah. Or go and get some suitable attire and then feel more than welcome to attend. Ideally they should be dressed appropriately, but at the very least they shouldn't really be wearing mini-skirts. If they are wearing tight jeans or a short skirt, then maybe they could grab a long coat, or a shawl, and wrap it round themselves so their legs and butt are covered.

If you're talking about someone who doesn't know the Islamically acceptable way to dress, and turns up at their first or second meeting, then that's an exception. They should be allowed to attend in the first instance, and then encouraged in the best way possible but with a degree of firmness to dress modestly when involved in MSA activities.

[Salika]

Originally Posted by Sugarberry

right. So say their muslim....but werent raised in a muslim home ( meaning their parents only consider themselves muslim in name)....what if miniskirts and tight jeans are all they have? dont come to the msa at all?

That's pretty far fetched... everyone has at least one set of at least semi-modest clothing. At least for winter time, if anything. A pair of normally fit jeans or t-shirts?

In any case, everyone should be welcome to the MSA, but there should be a point of respect from the newcomers. Just like you would not show up to black student union club with a t-shirt that says "long live whitey" or to a Jewish organization with a swastika, then have the manners to come in something at least somewhat presentable. On the other hand, just because an outsider does not fulfill their duties, does not remove the responsibility of the MSA to be understanding and welcoming. Maybe they did not do or did not anticipate on coming that particular day. We should give them the benefit of the doubt.

Now if they seek to disrespect the values of MSA on a regular basis, that's another story. If they want slot machines and parties, like Jamroll said, the MSA is not for them.

[MossadConspiracy]

you guys have to understand that MSA activities are not just a place to make friends, have fun, and learn, but also a place to act out authoritarian fantasies

[Jamroll]

Originally Posted by MossadConspiracy

you guys have to understand that MSA activities are not just a place to make friends, have fun, and learn, but also a place to act out authoritarian fantasies

If you want a room full of bikini clad girls, and boys wearing speedos, snorting cocaine and playing at the roulette table, knock yourself out. Just don't call it the MSA. That's all I'm saying.

[Sugarberry]

Originally Posted by Salika

That's pretty far fetched... everyone has at least one set of at least semi-modest clothing. At least for winter time, if anything. A pair of normally fit jeans or t-shirts?

people like this exist. I know quite a few girls who, come from muslim families who dont know how to pray, make dua, or what islamic dress is. How can you fault them then? I dont get what peoples fascination about clothes and islam and spirtuality is. Granted its just not right for some to come to msa with her chest hanging out and micro mini...but if she is wearing clothes that cover her skin your really going to discourage her from coming to get closer to allah or meet other muslims?

I think its more about the person on the inside than physical appearance....if they show consideration towards Islam and respect towards MSA cant we give the same to them?

Originally Posted by Jamroll

Pretty much, yeah. Or go and get some suitable attire and then feel more than welcome to attend. Ideally they should be dressed appropriately, but at the very least they shouldn't really be wearing mini-skirts. If they are wearing tight jeans or a short skirt, then maybe they could grab a long coat, or a shawl, and wrap it round themselves so their legs and butt are covered.

If you're talking about someone who doesn't know the Islamically acceptable way to dress, and turns up at their first or second meeting, then that's an exception. They should be allowed to attend in the first instance, and then encouraged in the best way possible but with a degree of firmness to dress modestly when involved in MSA activities.

see above post....dont be so close minded.

Originally Posted by Jamroll

If you want a room full of bikini clad girls, and boys wearing speedos, snorting cocaine and playing at the roulette table, knock yourself out. Just don't call it the MSA. That's all I'm saying.

way to go to the extreme

[MossadConspiracy]

Originally Posted by Jamroll

If you want a room full of bikini clad girls, and boys wearing speedos, snorting cocaine and playing at the roulette table, knock yourself out. Just don't call it the MSA. That's all I'm saying.

Did your MSA also have a free open bar and human sacrifices to Belaal?