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'We want to offer sharia law to Britain'

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Old 01-27-2008, 01:14 PM
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Default Re: 'We want to offer sharia law to Britain'

Here in Canada - Ontario specifically - we used to have Jewish law observed and recognized for mutually accepting parties. When the Muslims came forward and said they'd like to have the Shariah option for mutually accepting parties as well, the Islamophobes made such a ruckus about it that the province said "screw everyone", the Muslims won't have it and neither will the Jews.

*shrug*

big deal.
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Old 01-27-2008, 01:30 PM
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Default Re: 'We want to offer sharia law to Britain'

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Originally Posted by IbnMardhiyah View Post
Here in Canada - Ontario specifically - we used to have Jewish law observed and recognized for mutually accepting parties. When the Muslims came forward and said they'd like to have the Shariah option for mutually accepting parties as well, the Islamophobes made such a ruckus about it that the province said "screw everyone", the Muslims won't have it and neither will the Jews.

*shrug*

big deal.
Thats because Canada, Australia and New Zealand has the same common law tradition.

In England the jewish court is called the 'beth din'

Roberto...

It isn't. You seem to be confusing the two countries.

It's not a new law. It's something which is permitted by English law. Do you even know anything about English law ?

My masters ?

The Magna Carta is irrelevant to modern English law. You'd be surprised how many of it's provisions no longer exist. As I said you seem to be confusing ancient 'Merrye Englande' with the real country.
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Old 01-27-2008, 01:42 PM
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Default Re: 'We want to offer sharia law to Britain'

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Originally Posted by roberto View Post
It's more than Marriages
Like what? The article only dealt with Marriages.

Quote:
He makes the distinction between the aspects of law that sharia covers: worship, penal law, and personal law. Muslim leaders in Britain are interested only in integrating personal law, he says.
Personal Law... how is that a problem to the Non Muslim masses of the UK?
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Old 01-27-2008, 01:43 PM
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Default Re: 'We want to offer sharia law to Britain'

are there similarities between beth din and sharia? and which would have precendence in face of the law of the land?
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Old 01-27-2008, 01:51 PM
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Default Re: 'We want to offer sharia law to Britain'

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Originally Posted by Kona_Silat View Post
are there similarities between beth din and sharia? and which would have precendence in face of the law of the land?
Somewhat.

If anybody had a problem then they could have the courts examine the matter as part of a judicial review. The courts are reluctant to intervene in cases where both parties had equal negotiating positions and there is no evidence that the process itself was manifestly unfair
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Old 01-27-2008, 01:52 PM
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Default Re: 'We want to offer sharia law to Britain'

[quote=LEGALEAGLE;76668]


Quote:
It's not a new law. It's something which is permitted by English law.
Dr Suhaib Hasan is pushing for personal sharia law to be integrated into the British legal system


Quote:
My masters ?

Your bosses for whom you make tea


Quote:
The Magna Carta is irrelevant to modern English law. You'd be surprised how many of it's provisions no longer exist.
It would be a good back groind reading, for times when you have a rest from your tea making
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Old 01-27-2008, 01:55 PM
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Default Re: 'We want to offer sharia law to Britain'

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Originally Posted by roberto View Post
That’s a fair question, off the cuff I can't answer and I’m going to be lazy and duck it
psht wimp

Quote:
Agreed but I fail to see how that fits in with the topic of a change or introduction of new laws
There are no introduction of new laws. What the article related to wasn't a whole institution but an advisor of islamic law. People probably practise islamic law all the time, like getting written statements from all parties who make a financial transaction. It's really not such a big deal.

Quote:
Okay was I being thick?
I assumed you'd get it, probably my fault
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Old 01-27-2008, 01:55 PM
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Default Re: 'We want to offer sharia law to Britain'

[quote=Revert;76681]
Quote:
Like what? The article only dealt with Marriages.
Islamic courts meet every week in the UK to rule on divorces and financial disputes.
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Old 01-27-2008, 01:57 PM
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Default Re: 'We want to offer sharia law to Britain'

[quote=roberto;76692]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Revert View Post

Islamic courts meet every week in the UK to rule on divorces and financial disputes.
Judge Judy meets with folks every day on her show to rule on various cases.
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Old 01-27-2008, 01:58 PM
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Default Re: 'We want to offer sharia law to Britain'

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kona_Silat View Post
Judge Judy meets with folks every day on her show to rule on various cases.
See how these Jewish people get away with it? Tut tut, is it the way we smell? The way we use coconut oil in our hair?
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Old 01-27-2008, 02:01 PM
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Default Re: 'We want to offer sharia law to Britain'

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Originally Posted by Bluestar View Post
See how these Jewish people get away with it? Tut tut, is it the way we smell? The way we use coconut oil in our hair?
It seems you dont need permission from the governemnt to have your own judicial arbrtiartion between parties. I mean if people can agree to go on a court tv show, what is stopping two parties who want to go to a sharia court to arbritrate between them.
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Old 01-27-2008, 02:01 PM
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Default Re: 'We want to offer sharia law to Britain'

[quote=roberto;76692]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Revert View Post

Islamic courts meet every week in the UK to rule on divorces and financial disputes.
Yes I know.

Amazing how these media barons have no issues when it comes to multi-billion pound deals...you'd be amazed at how many non-muslims are studying islamic law because its so lucrative..

in fact 60% of islamic mortgages are taken up by non muslims

Welcome to the 21st century roberto

Kona the *same* applies in some criminal cases. Provided all parties agree the CPS won't interfere
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Old 01-27-2008, 02:05 PM
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Default Re: 'We want to offer sharia law to Britain'

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Originally Posted by roberto View Post
'We want to offer sharia law to Britain'
By Clare Dwyer Hogg and Jonathan Wynne-Jones
Last Updated: 1:59am GMT 23/01/2008Page 1 of 3

Islamic courts meet every week in the UK to rule on divorces and financial disputes. Clare Dwyer Hogg and Jonathan Wynne-Jones report on demands by senior Muslims that sharia be given legal authority

Amnah is a modern British Muslim. She is dressed in a denim skirt and her head is covered in a hijab. Poised and self-assured, she has come to meet Dr Suhaib Hasan, a silver-bearded sheikh who sits behind his desk, surrounded by religious books.


"But why would I have to observe the waiting period?" she asks him. "What are the reasons?" There is an urgency to her questions.


Dr Suhaib Hasan is pushing for personal sharia law to be integrated into the British legal system


"These reasons don't apply to me, that's what I'm very confused about. If you could give me the reasons why I have to wait three months, then I'll understand."

Amnah is going through a divorce and is baffled at being told that she must wait for three months to remarry, considering that she hasn't seen her estranged husband for two years.

She twists her sock-clad toes into the carpet, grasping one hand with the other in her lap, and fixes Dr Hasan with an intense look. He meets this with a simple reply: "These rulings are all in the Koran. The rulings are made for all."

Amnah has little choice but to comply: Dr Hasan is a judge, and this is a sharia court - in east London. It sits, innocuously, at the end of a row of terrace houses in Leyton: a converted corner shop, with blinds on the windows, office- style partitions and a makeshift reception area.


It is one of dozens of sharia courts - also known as councils - that have been set up in mosques, Islamic centres and even schools across Britain. The number of British Muslims using the courts is increasing.

To many in the West, talk of sharia law conjures up images of the floggings, stonings, amputations and beheadings carried out in hardline Islamic states such as Saudi Arabia and Iran. However, the form practised in Britain is more mundane, focusing mainly on marriage, divorce and financial disputes.

The judgments of the courts have no basis in British law, and are therefore technically illegitimate - they are binding only in that those involved agree to comply. For British Muslims who are keen to follow Islam, this poses a dilemma. An Islamic marriage is not recognised by British law, and therefore many couples will have two ceremonies - civil for the state, and Islamic for their faith.

If they wish to divorce, they must then seek both a civil and an Islamic divorce.

Dr Hasan, who has been presiding over sharia courts in Britain for more than 25 years, argues that British law would benefit from integrating aspects of Islamic personal law into the civil system, so that divorces could be rubber-stamped in the same way, for example, that Jewish couples who go to the Beth Din court have their divorce recognised in secular courts.

He points out that the Islamic Sharia Council, of which he is the general secretary, is flooded with work. It hears about 50 divorce cases every month, and responds to as many as 10 requests every day by email and phone for a fatwa - a religious verdict on a religious matter.

Dr Hasan, who is also a spokesman for the Muslim Council of Britain on issues of sharia law, says there is great misunderstanding of the issue in the West.

"Whenever people associate the word 'sharia' with Muslims, they think it is flogging and stoning to death and cutting off the hand," he says with a smile.

He makes the distinction between the aspects of law that sharia covers: worship, penal law, and personal law. Muslim leaders in Britain are interested only in integrating personal law, he says.

'We want to offer sharia law to Britain' - Telegraph
BBC NEWS | Magazine | The end of one law for all?

Quote:
Former judge Gerald Butler QC says that while courts such as the Jewish Beth Din can work properly, it's essential that all of the involved parties "freely and voluntarily agree to the jurisdiction... and that they conduct their proceedings fairly and properly". He adds: "What they mustn't do - and this must never happen - is to stray into the field of criminal matters. That simply would never be acceptable."
This is the heart of the matter. I do not believe that Islamists in the UK will tolerate being permanently excluded from authority over criminal matters, although I'm happy to be proven wrong.
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Old 01-27-2008, 02:17 PM
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Default Re: 'We want to offer sharia law to Britain'

Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxhole View Post

This is the heart of the matter. I do not believe that Islamists in the UK will tolerate being permanently excluded from authority over criminal matters, although I'm happy to be proven wrong.
That's not something that can really be proved right either.
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Old 01-27-2008, 02:41 PM
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Default Re: 'We want to offer sharia law to Britain'

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Originally Posted by Bluestar View Post
Personally, i'd much prefer Bluestar law in England. At least it won't allow the killing of a welshman from the castle grounds in Hereford
And I'd like to implement Blue Phoenix law into the entire known universe. But that would be a disaster for everyone except me because I have a ferocious anger streak.
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