'We want to offer sharia law to Britain'

[roberto]

'We want to offer sharia law to Britain'
By Clare Dwyer Hogg and Jonathan Wynne-Jones
Last Updated: 1:59am GMT 23/01/2008Page 1 of 3

Islamic courts meet every week in the UK to rule on divorces and financial disputes. Clare Dwyer Hogg and Jonathan Wynne-Jones report on demands by senior Muslims that sharia be given legal authority

Amnah is a modern British Muslim. She is dressed in a denim skirt and her head is covered in a hijab. Poised and self-assured, she has come to meet Dr Suhaib Hasan, a silver-bearded sheikh who sits behind his desk, surrounded by religious books.


"But why would I have to observe the waiting period?" she asks him. "What are the reasons?" There is an urgency to her questions.


Dr Suhaib Hasan is pushing for personal sharia law to be integrated into the British legal system


"These reasons don't apply to me, that's what I'm very confused about. If you could give me the reasons why I have to wait three months, then I'll understand."

Amnah is going through a divorce and is baffled at being told that she must wait for three months to remarry, considering that she hasn't seen her estranged husband for two years.

She twists her sock-clad toes into the carpet, grasping one hand with the other in her lap, and fixes Dr Hasan with an intense look. He meets this with a simple reply: "These rulings are all in the Koran. The rulings are made for all."

Amnah has little choice but to comply: Dr Hasan is a judge, and this is a sharia court - in east London. It sits, innocuously, at the end of a row of terrace houses in Leyton: a converted corner shop, with blinds on the windows, office- style partitions and a makeshift reception area.


It is one of dozens of sharia courts - also known as councils - that have been set up in mosques, Islamic centres and even schools across Britain. The number of British Muslims using the courts is increasing.

To many in the West, talk of sharia law conjures up images of the floggings, stonings, amputations and beheadings carried out in hardline Islamic states such as Saudi Arabia and Iran. However, the form practised in Britain is more mundane, focusing mainly on marriage, divorce and financial disputes.

The judgments of the courts have no basis in British law, and are therefore technically illegitimate - they are binding only in that those involved agree to comply. For British Muslims who are keen to follow Islam, this poses a dilemma. An Islamic marriage is not recognised by British law, and therefore many couples will have two ceremonies - civil for the state, and Islamic for their faith.

If they wish to divorce, they must then seek both a civil and an Islamic divorce.

Dr Hasan, who has been presiding over sharia courts in Britain for more than 25 years, argues that British law would benefit from integrating aspects of Islamic personal law into the civil system, so that divorces could be rubber-stamped in the same way, for example, that Jewish couples who go to the Beth Din court have their divorce recognised in secular courts.

He points out that the Islamic Sharia Council, of which he is the general secretary, is flooded with work. It hears about 50 divorce cases every month, and responds to as many as 10 requests every day by email and phone for a fatwa - a religious verdict on a religious matter.

Dr Hasan, who is also a spokesman for the Muslim Council of Britain on issues of sharia law, says there is great misunderstanding of the issue in the West.

"Whenever people associate the word 'sharia' with Muslims, they think it is flogging and stoning to death and cutting off the hand," he says with a smile.

He makes the distinction between the aspects of law that sharia covers: worship, penal law, and personal law. Muslim leaders in Britain are interested only in integrating personal law, he says.

'We want to offer sharia law to Britain' - Telegraph

[Pushpa]

So Britain already integrates aspects of Jewish law into civil law?

[Jamroll]

Pushpa said

So Britain already integrates aspects of Jewish law into civil law?

For certain areas of personal law, such as marriages, yes. So this Islamic sharia court is not really asking for anything more complicated for that.

They're not asking for sharia criminal law to replace secular criminal law, and in any case, there is no way that would be permitted. This is probably disappointing for a lot of Islamaphobes because despite the sensationialism this will no doubt cause, there will be no hangings, no chopped off hands, no floggings.

Also, a point to note from the article, is that it is clear people are already actively using these courts to decide their personal affairs such as marriage and divorce. All they're asking for, is that the already existing systems of these sharia courts be integrated and formalised under British law.

Another thing is that like the British Jewish system, it is an opt-in scheme. There is no compulsion to have your case dealt with under the Sharia court, just because you're Muslim. So for example, if Amnah, the girl cited in the article decided she wanted to handle it under the secular law courts she can do that.

[roberto]

[QUOTE=Jamroll;75349]

Also, a point to note from the article, is that it is clear people are already actively using these courts to decide their personal affairs such as marriage and divorce. All they're asking for, is that the already existing systems of these sharia courts be integrated and formalised under British law.

It would lead to two different laws covering the same cases; it's a step in the direction of a state within a state

[Bluestar]

Umm no. It's more like a traditional advisor. As the article stated, it's just offered in cases of divorce and financial advising and obviously when the individual seeks it.

Roberto, for some reason you always take the stance of Islam being a threat to your existence. This paranoia is unhealthy, you know?

Personally, i'd much prefer Bluestar law in England. At least it won't allow the killing of a welshman from the castle grounds in Hereford

[Revert]

roberto said

It would lead to two different laws covering the same cases; it's a step in the direction of a state within a state

NO it wouldn't Islamic Marriages happen all the time. They are not "legally" binding in the snese they are binded by UK Law. All they are asking is that be intergrated into the British law like Christian Marriages already are.

[roberto]

[QUOTE=Bluestar;76557]

Umm no. It's more like a traditional advisor. As the article stated, it's just offered in cases of divorce and financial advising and obviously when the individual seeks it.

If it's just advice why seek to have it as a law

Roberto, for some reason you always take the stance of Islam being a threat to your existence. This paranoia is unhealthy, you know?

A state within a state is an unstable situation it would effect all who live in the UK

Personally, i'd much prefer Bluestar law in England. At least it won't allow the killing of a welshman from the castle grounds in Hereford

??????

[roberto]

Revert said

NO it wouldn't Islamic Marriages happen all the time. They are not "legally" binding in the snese they are binded by UK Law. All they are asking is that be intergrated into the British law like Christian Marriages already are.

It's more than Marriages

[LEGALEAGLE]

Roberto contrary to your beliefs England and America are two *different* countries with different cultures and legal systems.

English law recognises the right of parties to decide a case based upon mediation whether through the use of Islamic or other law so long as it doesn't violate English law and even in cases where it does the CPS may decide not to intervene as it wouldn't be in the interests of justice.

Reading 'The Tales of Robin Hood of Merrye Englande' and 'King Arthur' doesn't provide you with many insights into English history or society.

[Bluestar]

roberto said

If it's just advice why seek to have it as a law

because it's law for those who want it to be. Not everyone takes their rules from institutions.

A state within a state is an unstable situation it would effect all who live in the UK

That's just melodramatic

??????

That law hasn't been diminished because it costs money to abolish laws apparently

[roberto]

[QUOTE=Bluestar;76576]

because it's law for those who want it to be. Not everyone takes their rules from institutions.

Make up your mind it's either a law that’s wanted, or just an advise facility

That's just melodramatic

No it's a situation which could develop, so-be-it over a long time; in a recent poll 40% of Muslims asked, voted for the introduction of Sharia

That law hasn't been diminished because it costs money to abolish laws apparently [/

I still don't know what your talking about

[Bluestar]

roberto said

Make up your mind it's either a law that’s wanted, or just an advise facility

It's both, these people hold Islam close to their hearts, they make it as good as law for themselves. They also go these people for advice without necessarily making it obligatory for them, just for a second opinion.

No it's a situation which could develop, so-be-it over a long time; in a recent poll 40% of Muslims asked, voted for the introduction of Sharia

Which poll? Where was it taken? What sort of questions were asked?

It's a "situation" which could develop? Good, i'm glad people can go to other people for help and advice

I still don't know what your talking about

forget it

[roberto]

[QUOTE=LEGALEAGLE;76575]

Roberto contrary to your beliefs England and America are two *different* countries with different cultures and legal systems.

A pointless remark

English law recognises the right of parties to decide a case based upon mediation whether through the use of Islamic or other law so long as it doesn't violate English law and even in cases where it does the CPS may decide not to intervene as it wouldn't be in the interests of justice.

New laws cannot be introduce by the mediation between two parties

Sparrow, the droppings from your masters, confuse you , don't they

Reading 'The Tales of Robin Hood of Merrye Englande' and 'King Arthur' doesn't provide you with many insights into English history or society

Try the Magna Carta

[roberto]

[QUOTE=Bluestar;76634]

It's both, these people hold Islam close to their hearts, they make it as good as law for themselves. They also go these people for advice without necessarily making it obligatory for them, just for a second opinion.

Thats a full circle , sorry but I'll opt out

Which poll? Where was it taken? What sort of questions were asked?

That’s a fair question, off the cuff I can't answer and I’m going to be lazy and duck it

It's a "situation" which could develop? Good, i'm glad people can go to other people for help and advice

Agreed but I fail to see how that fits in with the topic of a change or introduction of new laws

forget it :flower

Okay was I being thick?

[Kona_Silat]

Pushpa said

So Britain already integrates aspects of Jewish law into civil law?

just for future reference what is it called?