[roberto]

Originally Posted by Bluestar

well its obviously their belief, still doesn't rule out the stupidity though.

So a person who is raised as a Muslim under situations supporting the more extreme version of Islam, (extreme to the point you would call stupid) has to be stupid rather than indoctrinated in stupid extremes.

The point I’m making is that there are two levels of responsibility, individual and the organisation these can be governments, religions, and of course a whole range of smaller organisations. The important difference between them is the level of indoctrination.

In respect of this thread I’d say those who are pressing for the punishment of this unfortunate woman are not necessarily stupid, but are indoctrinated in an extreme version of Islam.

[aroma]

Originally Posted by Timbit

Aroma, where do you live?
I haven't seen the Metro here today, as I drove to work.
But will make sure to pick up a copy later today.

This is really dumb though.

Im from England, the north east part, just outside Newcastle-Upon Tyne......

[Bluestar]

i don't think they could have any religious proof to back themselves up, if they lack religious proof, it can't have stemmed from religion. Plus, a person can be ingrained in the more extreme part of Islam, but it's a conscious choice, it's not something that happens to you. Being a good or bad muslim (in respect to how one treats another) is the same as choosing to be a good or bad person. Claiming to be a victim to extreme Islam would be an excuse.

Personally, i reckon they'll charge her a fine and keep the money for themselves if they're gluttonous. If they have a political vendetta, they'll lash her, and probably start building relationships with saudi arabia.

In any case, i hope she gets away free and comes back to a safe place as soon as possible. Don't know what our government is doing to ensure that, i guess their focus is all the money that should never have been borrowed right now. That's obviously more important.

[roberto]

[quote=Bluestar;45987]i

don't think they could have any religious proof to back themselves up, if they lack religious proof, it can't have stemmed from religion. Plus, a person can be ingrained in the more extreme part of Islam, but it's a conscious choice, it's not something that happens to you. Being a good or bad muslim (in respect to how one treats another) is the same as choosing to be a good or bad person. Claiming to be a victim to extreme Islam would be an excuse.

Guess we shall have to agree to disagree

Personally, i reckon they'll charge her a fine and keep the money for themselves if they're gluttonous. If they have a political vendetta, they'll lash her, and probably start building relationships with saudi arabia.

We now know the sentence

In any case, i hope she gets away free and comes back to a safe place as soon as possible.

Not so I'm afraid

Don't know what our government is doing to ensure that, i guess their focus is all the money that should never have been borrowed right now. That's obviously more important

I don't understand above

[Variable]

Looks like it's 15 days in jail? Well, I still don't think it's very fair, but phewph.

So who voted she gets 6 months in jail anyway? Come forward!

[jinnzaman]

I vote for anger management classes for Muslims.

[Jamroll]

Originally Posted by Variable

Looks like it's 15 days in jail? Well, I still don't think it's very fair, but phewph.

So who voted she gets 6 months in jail anyway? Come forward!

Well yeah, it's better than getting lashes, but I don't think she should have got anything. At the most, the very most, she should have just got a wrist-slap from the school's principal (not the police) about educating herself more about local culture. I don't think that the authorities should get involved in things like this.

[Variable]

Originally Posted by jinnzaman

I vote for anger management classes for Muslims.

...or a few people in the Sudanese government.

Originally Posted by Jamroll

Well yeah, it's better than getting lashes, but I don't think she should have got anything. At the most, the very most, she should have just got a wrist-slap from the school's principal (not the police) about educating herself more about local culture. I don't think that the authorities should get involved in things like this.

Yeh, but I'd say it's a pretty nuanced idea. I'm still trying to figure it out, is it considered shirk? I would have thought it would be trouble if they named the bear 'Allah' or something, but not Mohammed. I know you're not supposed to create a likeness of the Prophet, but they just used the name...

[roberto]

Originally Posted by Jamroll

Well yeah, it's better than getting lashes, but I don't think she should have got anything. At the most, the very most, she should have just got a wrist-slap from the school's principal (not the police) about educating herself more about local culture. I don't think that the authorities should get involved in things like this.

Those that demanded that she be charged and punished have claimed to do so in the name of Islam and Shiria Law, not their culture.

[Jamroll]

Originally Posted by Variable

...or a few people in the Sudanese government.



Yeh, but I'd say it's a pretty nuanced idea. I'm still trying to figure it out, is it considered shirk? I would have thought it would be trouble if they named the bear 'Allah' or something, but not Mohammed. I know you're not supposed to create a likeness of the Prophet, but they just used the name...

To be honest, I am quite appalled at this case. As far as I can tell, unless some other vital pieces of information are being withheld from us, this woman was just unaware of the local customs. She went to a foreign country to help children to learn to read and write, and if all other facts being reported are correct, it's embarassing as a Muslim to be associated with this kind of action, and I really feel for her personally aswell.

No, shirk doesn't even come into it. Shirk is associating partners with God. This is probably got to do with Muslims generally do not name their animals after the Prophet or any of his Companions (just out of respect more than anything else), but to take it to this level, is in my view, quite ridiculous. And I'm pretty confident that at least 90% of Muslims would share the same view.

[Timbit]

So nobody should name their kid Muhammad then, by this logic.

[Variable]

Originally Posted by Jamroll

To be honest, I am quite appalled at this case. As far as I can tell, unless some other vital pieces of information are being withheld from us, this woman was just unaware of the local customs. She went to a foreign country to help children to learn to read and write, and if all other facts being reported are correct, it's embarassing as a Muslim to be associated with this kind of action, and I really feel for her personally aswell.

No, shirk doesn't even come into it. Shirk is associating partners with God. This is probably got to do with Muslims generally do not name their animals after the Prophet or any of his Companions (just out of respect more than anything else), but to take it to this level, is in my view, quite ridiculous. And I'm pretty confident that at least 90% of Muslims would share the same view.

92% according to the poll

(although I voted too)

Anyway, I don't think anyone should be embarrassed by this. The Ummah's too big for something this small to be representative of Muslims as a whole.

[Bluestar]

Originally Posted by Timbit

So nobody should name their kid Muhammad then, by this logic.

by their logic it'll be worse if someone names a person muhammed as humans can sin and therefore they may "taint" the purity, a teddybear is sinless, they get a free ticket to teddy heaven.

[Bouncer]

In Islam we have a saying " Innama al 'amala bi niyyah innama li kulli emreen ma nawa"

"Actions are determined by intentions and for every person whatever they intended".

In proper Shari'ah she would be asked what she intended and if she didn't intend blasphemy she would be left alone.

Roberto; Sudan isn’t a Islamic country far from it, even though it’s predominantly Muslim. It would be considered a “Islamic country” if they fully implemented Shariah law, but no such "Islamic state" exists even at this present time, this includes Saudi, although they partially pick and choose some. Sudan; are actually following customary law, unjust law runned by zealots. These people are not following the proper teachings; they're not even just picking and choosing, they're just making up their own rules.

There is nothing wrong with naming a Teddy Mohammed; the word Muhammad in 'Arabic is a linguistic term which means "Praised One". We don't just refer to Muahmmad(saw) as Muhammad(saw) but Muhammad RasulAllah(saw). We note the difference by saying "Sali Allahu 'alayhi al salaam".

And i have to agree with Jamroll, there is a political agenda to some exent. In recent times anything that seems to be related to Islam/Muslims is sensationalised/hyped by the Media, which does nothing more then add more fuel to the fire, confusing Muslims and Non-Muslims alike, causing a bigger divide and more hatred. So in relation to this, I would like to post something from another site, who's member stated (somewhat) of the bigger picture;

The Sudanese government is hyping this up hoping the outrage will affect the aid going to Darfur.

Most (not all) government-connected Sudanese I know deny there's a problem in Darfur. I'm not saying all Sudanese agree with this, only that the government definitely doesn't want the outside world "meddling" in its internal affairs.

Government doesn't want foreign scrutiny into it's support for the Janjaweed, and what better way than to get the people in donor countries so outraged that they pressure their governments to withdraw aid?

Tactical... I don't think this has anything to do with religion... just once again, as with groups in other religions, using religion as a platform for political/personal manipulation...

[roberto]

[quote=Bouncer;46629]

Roberto; Sudan isn’t a Islamic country far from it, even though it’s predominantly Muslim. It would be considered a “Islamic country” if they fully implemented Shariah law, but no such "Islamic state" exists even at this present time, this includes Saudi, although they partially pick and choose some. Sudan; are actually following customary law, unjust law runned by zealots. These people are not following the proper teachings; they're not even just picking and choosing, they're just making up their own rules.

I'm fully aware that the Sudan has in the south a large Christian pop