[GOTFIVEONIT]

Originally Posted by Kaminyu

Who actually expects that they would just hand power over to him? They wouldn't. They'd zealously fight him, and try to kill him through any means necessary. Therefore, any aspiring Caliph today would have to be a hardcore revolutionary idealist, willing to go to war against virtually everyone to achieve his objective. The only person who could possibly accomplish this successfully is the Mahdi.

haha, are you a mahdi pathan now kamal? and just who exactly would this be? you? dont you know? the mahdli already came in sudan in the 19th century.

[sixpakistan]

Originally Posted by GOTFIVEONIT

why its a perfectly good point. what caused the sunni-shia divide? it was succession over the calipha. at one point in history you had three different caliphas in rivalry with each other. and just who should be the calipha? who should appoint him?

Well, for one, Ali (RA) and Muawiya (RA) are both Sunni, according to Sunnis. Yazid is disowned by both Sunnis and Shias.

A Sunni caliph would rule over Sunnis. There would be no "split" between Sunnis & Shias in terms of the caliphate, because Sunnis and Shias are not unified in any case, nor will they ever be. They would effectively be treated as different ummahs.

Finally, your point makes it seem as though it was an error for the caliphate to ever exist to begin with, and as though the system is inherently flawed.

[GOTFIVEONIT]

Originally Posted by LEGALEAGLE

Not according to Sunni belief.

Imam Mahdi will be chosen by the army of Khurasan to rule after they defeat the rulers of Hijaz

mullah omar declared himself the 'amir al mumineen' did the other 1 billion Muslims believe in this? not really.

[GOTFIVEONIT]

Originally Posted by sixpakistan

Well, for one, Ali (RA) and Muawiya (RA) are both Sunni, according to Sunnis. Yazid is disowned by both Sunnis and Shias.

A Sunni caliph would rule over Sunnis. There would be no "split" between Sunnis & Shias in terms of the caliphate, because Sunnis and Shias are not unified in any case, nor will they ever be. They would effectively be treated as different ummahs.

Finally, your point makes it seem as though it was an error for the caliphate to ever exist to begin with, and as though the system is inherently flawed.

no my point is that throughout history no one could agree on a single caliphate. to a point it became a hereditary monarchy. and what if your beloved caliphate doesnt agree with your wahabi views? are you gonna start calling him 'unislamic' and kaffir too like you guys do to everyone else?

just how will your caliphate solve the problem of poverty in most muslim countries, like pakistan and bangladesh? or is the only thing you care about is people's morality, and are more than happy to watch children begging in the streets of lahore?

will you caliphate arrest all the pakistani policemen, police captians, and army generals who frequent heera mandi? or will he turn a blind eye to the morality of those in powers?

will your caliphate crack down on corruption and bribery that leaves many muslim countries stagnante?

will your caliphate break up the 40 families that control pakistan?

how will your caliphate set taxation? what will be his government expenditure?

or is taliban morality rule is all that you care about?

[Kaminyu]

Originally Posted by GOTFIVEONIT

haha, are you a mahdi pathan now kamal? and just who exactly would this be? you? dont you know? the mahdli already came in sudan in the 19th century.

What's a "mahdi pathan"?

I've covered a lot about the Mahdi on my website, and it wasn't Muhammad Ahmad in Sudan in the 19th century, as he doesn't fit the criteria.

[GOTFIVEONIT]

Originally Posted by Kaminyu

What's a "mahdi pathan"?

I've covered a lot about the Mahdi on my website, and it wasn't Muhammad Ahmad in Sudan in the 19th century, as he doesn't fit the criteria.

but he declared himself the mahdi, what makes your word more important than his kamal?

and since you believe in taliban style rule, will you open your hard drive for public inspection so that we may check to see if you have porn downloaded on there? or anything else haram on there? i mean after all this is what you advocate for everyone else.

[Kaminyu]

Originally Posted by GOTFIVEONIT

but he declared himself the mahdi, what makes your word more important than his kamal?

Because it isn't my word, whatever-your-name-is (who told you my name?), but the word of the Prophet and his companions.

and since you believe in taliban style rule, will you open your hard drive for public inspection so that we may check to see if you have porn downloaded on there? or anything else haram on there? i mean after all this is what you advocate for everyone else.

I don't seem to recall ever believing in taliban-style rule. But, if that's what you want to believe, go ahead. You can also believe that Hezbollah are really "Wahhabis" if you wanted to.

[GOTFIVEONIT]

Originally Posted by Kaminyu

Because it isn't my word, whatever-your-name-is (who told you my name?), but the word of the Prophet and his companions.

but the prophet wasnt alive in the 19th century was he? so how can you say it was his words? they are not his words, you are attributing your words to his words. now im not saying that the sudanese guy was the mahdi, but you cant sit there and make claims that we have to wait for the mahdi to do this or that, or the mahdi will usher in a glorious revivile, honestly you guys sound like your living in a cult or something. i mean this guy declared himself the mahdi. theres even a sunni sect known as mahdi pathans who believe that the mahdi already arrived.

and who told me your name? ooh i have my sources mr. bhatti. oye oye you have a strong punjabi name. and as for my name? take a willlllld guess.

I don't seem to recall ever believing in taliban-style rule. But, if that's what you want to believe, go ahead. You can also believe that Hezbollah are really "Wahhabis" if you wanted to.

hezbullah are shia's and are heros for ridding thier country from zionist occupation. unlike wahabis, they have shown nothing but the utmost respect for the christian minority in thier country, which is why even plenty of lebanese christians respect them to this day.

[Kaminyu]

Originally Posted by GOTFIVEONIT

but the prophet wasnt alive in the 19th century was he? so how can you say it was his words? they are not his words, you are attributing your words to his words. now im not saying that the sudanese guy was the mahdi, but you cant sit there and make claims that we have to wait for the mahdi to do this or that, or the mahdi will usher in a glorious revivile, honestly you guys sound like your living in a cult or something. i mean this guy declared himself the mahdi. theres even a sunni sect known as mahdi pathans who believe that the mahdi already arrived.

The Prophet's words are recorded in ahadith, which have existed since the 7th century, and are not my words. These ahadith describe who the Mahdi is, and Mr. Ahmad of 19th century Sudan doesn't fit the bill, so how can he possibly be him? I'm only saying what the ahadith have already said about him, and if these ahadith about the Mahdi sound like "cult" material to you, then that's your problem.

and who told me your name? ooh i have my sources mr. bhatti. oye oye you have a strong punjabi name. and as for my name? take a willlllld guess.

Well, you either checked my IP address, or you've talked to someone who knows me, or you got it off of facebook. In any case, I'm flattered that you bothered to find out.

hezbullah are shia's and are heros for ridding thier country from zionist occupation. unlike wahabis, they have shown nothing but the utmost respect for the christian minority in thier country, which is why even plenty of lebanese christians respect them to this day.

Exactly. But you can believe they are Wahhabis if really wanted to, just like you can also believe that I somehow believe in Taliban-style rule if you really wanted to.

[GOTFIVEONIT]

[quote=Kaminyu;40500]

The Prophet's words are recorded in ahadith, which have existed since the 7th century, and are not my words. These ahadith describe who the Mahdi is, and Mr. Ahmad of 19th century Sudan doesn't fit the bill, so how can he possibly be him? I'm only saying what the ahadith have already said about him, and if these ahadith about the Mahdi sound like "cult" material to you, then that's your problem

.

so basically those descriptions that you speak of is simply just your own opinion kamal, that ahmed was not the mahdi. even though he says he was. what about the mahdi pathans? they believe the mahdi already came.

Exactly. But you can believe they are Wahhabis if really wanted to, just like you can also believe that I somehow believe in Taliban-style rule if you really wanted to.

i never said that hezbullah was wahabi, obviously being shia they are not. and if you say you dont support talib, then ok ill take your word for it.

[Ilikemyscarf]

Having gotfive on my ignore list is the best.

[Kaminyu]

Originally Posted by GOTFIVEONIT

so basically those descriptions that you speak of is simply just your own opinion kamal, that ahmed was not the mahdi. even though he says he was. what about the mahdi pathans? they believe the mahdi already came.

No, those descriptions are from the relevant ahadith, not my own opinion. The only opinion I have, is with regard to some of the sequences of future events, and how they occur. Who the Mahdi is, what he looks like, when he appears, where he appears, how he appears, and what he does, can all be found in ahadith.

i never said that hezbullah was wahabi, obviously being shia they are not. and if you say you dont support talib, then ok ill take your word for it.

Well, that's what I'm saying.

[rahat]

Which hadith say the Khurasan army will "decide" the Mahdi? Ive never seen that in any sect's hadith.

[Kaminyu]

Originally Posted by rahat

Which hadith say the Khurasan army will "decide" the Mahdi? Ive never seen that in any sect's hadith.

The hadith doesn't actually say that, it's just somewhat implied and interpreted that way.

Here is the hadith:

'Abdullāh said:

Whilst we were with the Prophet, some young men from Banu Hashim approached us. When the Prophet saw them, his eyes filled with tears and the colour of his face changed. I said, We can see something has changed in your face, and it upsets us. The Prophet said, "We are the people of a Household for whom Allāh has chosen the Hereafter rather than this world. The people of my Household (Ahl al-Bayt) will suffer a great deal after my death, and will be persecuted until a people carrying black banners will come out of the east. They will instruct the people to do good, but the people will refuse; they will fight until they are victorious, and the people do as they asked, but they will not accept it from them until they hand over power to a man from my household. Then the earth will be filled with fairness, just as it had been filled with injustice. If any of you live to see this, you should go to him even if you have to crawl across ice."

(Ibn Majah, No. 4082)

Some may interpret that to mean that the Khurasan army decides who the Mahdi is.