Sunnis kill Shias yet again

[IrishMuslimah]

While I wont pretend to know anything about politics, I wonder why extremists are able to succeed in so many Middle Eastern countries. Why are the citizens of these countries not fighting back??

rehaan said

More like 0.01%. And as Jamroll said, there are a lot of Muslims speaking out against extremism. You just don't hear about it.

my 1% was just an example. And thats the problem...while Muslims may speak out, it needs to get heard. Perhaps these moderates need to get louder.

This is obviously wishful thinking. Joe and Mary Al-smith are not going to be on the news anytime soon because nobody wants to hear about normal Muslims. We want to hear about the gun waving, zaghareeting, exploding Muslims. Unfortunately, I feel like those Muslims dont think average Muslims are having enough of their crap and none of us are going to fight back.

Idk. Im a marine baby. My dad was a marine, in the navy, a cop and a bouncer in a club. He has a "dont piss me off or I'll show you my machine gun and battle scars" attitude and sometimes I want to have the same attitude when I hear about these things. Unfortunately, im a 21 year old woman from Janesville, Wisconsin....theres not a whole lot that I can do except get mad and rant about it on Islamica.

[Jamroll]

IrishMuslimah said

While I wont pretend to know anything about politics, I wonder why extremists are able to succeed in so many Middle Eastern countries. Why are the citizens of these countries not fighting back??

Most of the countries in the Middle East are ruled with an iron fist. They are tyrannical dictatorships, and are extremely strict with their population. Anyone who dissents is imprisoned, tortured or executed. This results in a very suppressed population. If you deal with a people like this, suppressing them, then the only reaction will be an extreme one.

Despite their claims of wanting democracy, the US and UK governments are propping all these dictatorships up, because the leaders are corrupt and do what our governments want them to.

[Variable]

Jamroll said

Most of the countries in the Middle East are ruled with an iron fist. They are tyrannical dictatorships, and are extremely strict with their population. Anyone who dissents is imprisoned, tortured or executed. This results in a very suppressed population. If you deal with a people like this, suppressing them, then the only reaction will be an extreme one.

Despite their claims of wanting democracy, the US and UK governments are propping all these dictatorships up, because the leaders are corrupt and do what our governments want them to.

I don't think that's entirely accurate. Many of the dictatorships that the US and UK support in the region, in one way or another (Egypt, Saudi Arabia for example), wouldn't likely fall apart due to popular revolt if that support was withdrawn. Other's, like Syria or Iran, don't fit into that category at all. Beyond that, the whole dynamic is much more complicated than simply those countries being puppets of the West.

In any case, if I'm not mistaken, IrishMuslimah's question regarded why people weren't fighting extremists agitating the Sunni/Shia divide. If so I'm not sure how all that above is applicable to her question (unless it's assumed the dictatorships in the Mid East are responsible for that)

[IrishMuslimah]

Variable said

In any case, if I'm not mistaken, IrishMuslimah's question regarded why people weren't fighting extremists agitating the Sunni/Shia divide. If so I'm not sure how all that above is applicable to her question (unless it's assumed the dictatorships in the Mid East are responsible for that)

no, I know very little about the sunni/shia devide. My question was about extremism in general. I think Jamroll made a lot of sense.

Thanks both of you

I am the worst person in the world to even be in this discussion. I know nothing about politics. Im one of those people that gives a question like "well why dont they just do this!?" knowing full well that there are tons and tons and tons of underlying issues that are unaddressed and unfixed that all play into the problem. I just get fed up with extremism because it directly effects my life and the way people see me and im getting annoyed that I dont see it going away. I feel as though its just getting worse.

[BrightBroom]

Badshah said

IOn another note, I bet Hard2Hit will claim India did it, ........

Its a possibility. Especially, the burning of the buildings afterwards.

[Badshah]

BrightBroom said

Its a possibility. Especially, the burning of the buildings afterwards.

Yeah because rioting is a concept foreign to Pakistan right?

Most of the countries in the Middle East are ruled with an iron fist. They are tyrannical dictatorships, and are extremely strict with their population. Anyone who dissents is imprisoned, tortured or executed. This results in a very suppressed population. If you deal with a people like this, suppressing them, then the only reaction will be an extreme one.

The Taliban's rule, along with the rule of the Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan when they ruled the town of Namangan in the early 90's can be characterized as what you describe, so why do you not see these same Muslims reacting angrily over that?

[BrightBroom]

Badshah said

Yeah because rioting is a concept foreign to Pakistan right?

Dude, India is not too far from Pakistan, is it? and their agents are active in Pakistan. so are opratives from US and Israel.

So, how can you deny that the possiblity exists?

[Rambo]

shia sunni violence is 1400 years old, stop blaming people from outside when there are sunni extremists in pakistan who think killing a shia is good deed. Muslims (relgious) ones, many of them are really really messed up in a country like pakistan. Extremism is thriving every where in pakistan.

[firefly]

Pakistan is a mess, shias and other minorities have been targeted in the past in such attacks.

My dad watches the discussion programmes (which I reluctantly watch) on Geo and ARY (government officials, opposition etc). These programmes are a good indicator of why Pakistan is in the position it is in, these people appear to have no common vision for Pakistan, for its future, prosperity etc, they just bicker and argue.

I don't see the light at the end of the tunnel, in the absence of a decent and accountable government these problems will just continue to get worse.

It's such a shame that when pakistani people did get the chance to vote they still end up with a good-for-nothing corrupt government, it's sad.

[IrishMuslimah]

"And hold fast,
All together, by the rope
Which Allah (stretches out for you),
and be not divided among yourselves;" 3:103

I know very little about what divides them (only the simple surface things...like Shia believing Ali is the successor of Muhammad (pbuh)) but isnt this divide completely against Islam in the first place? Aren't we all meant to follow Muhammad (pbuh) and not to seperate into these seperate sects?

[Rambo]

I dont know about the past but in recent times sunnis are responsible for much of the violence, there is no denying in this. Infact i have noticed Shias rarely take revenge against sunnis after the attacks.

[firefly]

Rambo said

I dont know about the past but in recent times sunnis are responsible for much of the violence, there is no denying in this. Infact i have noticed Shias rarely take revenge against sunnis after the attacks.

Extremists are responsible for such violence, and shias rarely conduct revenge attacks, agreed.

As for your point regarding sunni imams coming out and criticising these attacks, they may already have done so in their masjids or even on pakistani tv...or are you taking about sunni imams in the west regardless I hardly think they would be given airtime to express such views.

[Variable]

IrishMuslimah said

no, I know very little about the sunni/shia devide. My question was about extremism in general. I think Jamroll made a lot of sense.

Thanks both of you

I am the worst person in the world to even be in this discussion. I know nothing about politics. Im one of those people that gives a question like "well why dont they just do this!?" knowing full well that there are tons and tons and tons of underlying issues that are unaddressed and unfixed that all play into the problem. I just get fed up with extremism because it directly effects my life and the way people see me and im getting annoyed that I dont see it going away. I feel as though its just getting worse.

Even then, I'm not sure Jamroll's question was applicable. Your question was "why don't people fight extremism" not "why don't people topple the government". Even then, the answer to that would depend on who and what people define as extremists and extremism.

[Rambo]

firefly said

Extremists are responsible for such violence, agreed.

As for your point regarding sunni imams coming out and criticising these attacks, they may already have done so in their masjids or even on pakistani tv...or are you taking about sunni imams in the west regardless I hardly think they would be given airtime to express such views.

some might have condemnd it but clearly the voice is not heard,also dont shy away to say sunni because they call themselves sunnis. ofcourse the teaching of sunni islam is against this kind of violence but if sunnis are doing violence against shias, then they should be called sunnis, no need to hide this fact. There is clear problem with some sunnis who hate shias to death

[firefly]

Rambo said

some might have condemnd it but clearly the voice is not heard,also dont shy away to say sunni because they call themselves sunnis. ofcourse the teaching of sunni islam is against this kind of violence but if sunnis are doing violence against shias, then they should be called sunnis, no need to hide this fact. There is clear problem with some sunnis who hate shias to death

I'm not if you follow what is going on in Pak, then you will realise that attacks are perpetrated indiscriminately regardless of religion, sect, cast etc.. they become sunni extremists when they attack shias, they may well be the same people responsible for the bomb blast that occured on Benazir Butto's arrival parade in Karachi...who knows?

BTW the Taliban are being blamed, i don't know whether they've claimed responsibility. Shias continue to be killed in Taliban controlled areas, at the same time the Taliban are responsible for so many mass killings in Pak, maybe including this latest one.

This is the reason I call the perpetrators extremists not sunni extremists, since they kill indiscriminately.

Abbas Kumaili, a Shia scholar, said: “Muslims have to unite and defeat the force who want to divide us.” Bomb attack prompts angry protests by Shia mourners - The Irish Times - Tue, Dec 29, 2009

As I said before only control, good governance and security will prevent such attacks in the future but we are taking about Pak here .