[Timbit]

Originally Posted by Songbird

In the African diaspora, 17 is not always deemed too young.

It's not always deemed too young for South-Asian people too, but I think it should be. That's why you have situations like that. Tragic.

[Habibti]

My head is spinning with so much information I just want to cry
I never knew it was this difficult, Im exhausted

[Songbird]

Originally Posted by Habibti

My head is spinning with so much information I just want to cry
I never knew it was this difficult, Im exhausted

Sis you need to focus.

You're a Muslimah. We have the Qur'an as our book of guidance and our Nabi sallAllahu alaihi wa sallam as the example we are to follow.

When we are confused and do not know which way to turn, we do as our Prophet sallAllahu alaihi wa sallam did and pray salatul Istikhara. Surely when you don't know what to do, it's Allah swt's guidance you should be seeking first and foremost, no?

Here's a nice little blurb on the the prayer and remember it's only 2 Rakats.

The Arabic word 'Istikhara' means to ask Allah for whatever is good

The supplication that the Prophet (pbuh) taught us for the purpose of Istikhara is a very beautiful one, but it does not have anything in it that suggests that the person asking Allah for the good (Mustakhir) shall be given a sign in any dream.

If you look closely at the words of this supplication, all they imply is that whenever I have a decision to take, or have taken a decision, I should pray to Allah that if the consequences of this decision are in my favor, in this world as well as the hereafter, He should help me in carrying out the decision.

On the other hand, if the consequences of this decision are not to my benefit, in this world or in the hereafter, He should remove all inclinations from my mind to implement such decision, and satisfy my heart and soul in doing so.

My dear brother, God has given man the faculty of reasoning. He should take his decisions in the light of the apparent pros and cons of the alternative choices. He should not, in any case, base his decisions on dreams. As should be clear from the above explanation, the concept of Istikhara does not imply that we should wait for signs from Allah in taking our decisions; it only means that we should take our decisions and do whatever we think is right and then ask Allah that if our decision is the correct one, He should help us and carrying it out and making our plans successful, while if it is not the correct one, he should alter the circumstances in such a way that we do not implement our decision, and that he should provide satisfaction to our heart in doing so.

In other words, Istikhara is the declaration of our belief that all things are in the control of Allah and that we, as His humble servants submit to all His decisions, even when we are made to alter our plans because of His decisions.

And ukhti, may Allah swt guide you to what's best.

[IbnMardhiyah]

Originally Posted by Songbird

I wouldn't be too hasty in cutting Islamic law out of the equation.

As you'll see, I qualified my statement by saying its relevant only if both parties agree to it.

[Ibn Abu Ibrahim]

You know...in the end it's the Wali who has final say over what the Mahr should be.

The girl just gets the money.

[Songbird]

Not always.

Some of us don't have a Wali and once you get to a certain age, my understanding is, you don't need one.

[iSHi]

Islam Question and Answer - What is the minimum amount of mahr? What is the modern equivalent of the mahr of the Mothers of the Believers?
Islam Question and Answer - The mahr (dowry) is the right of the wife
Islam Question and Answer - When a wife lets her husband off paying the Mahr
Islam Question and Answer - Reducing the mahr is the Sunnah, i'A that helps.

I didn't get around to every single post becuase I have a headache and looking at the screen is making it worse. So forgive me if ti's already been said. Some people said something about ask for as much you'd want if you get divorced. I read a fatwa saying that if you have ANY intenetions on divorce your marriage is either invalid or you've sinned (something to that nature). Also mahr (according to my understanding) isn't always given back in a divorce. It depends on the reasons and who asked for it. Anyways i'm no scholar. Allahu Alim.

[ChotooMotoo]

Planning for the possibility of divorce is not the same thing as getting married with the intention of divorce. One could even say that stipulating a delayed mehr in the event of divorce is a pretty good way to keep it from happening. He might treat you better if he knew that he has to pay you a large sum if you get divorced. I think that's the whole purpose of a delayed mehr anyway. Divorce, while allowed, is one of the most disliked acts by Allah (swt), so best to avoid it right?

Nobody knows the future, so you should be thinking of such questions as: what will happen if God Forbid we divorce? What will happen if he becomes disabled and can't support me? What will happen if I become disabled? What will happen if we can't have kids?

I don't want to hear the "Oh sister, you lack imaan, just leave it to Allah (swt) and he will provide" inshallah Allah (swt) will provide, that's true. However, that doesn't mean you shouldn't think about these things. Allah (swt) comes towards you an arms lenght when you just move towards him a fingers width... but you have to move towards him. You have to try, in everything, you best. Don't just leave it for latter without thinking about things first. I'm sure those poor girls who got married too young were told by everyone "you don't need mehr, it's all in Allah's hands anyway" well, Allah (swt) gave them the bare minimum, and I'm sure her ex-husband will get what he deserves for leaving his wife peniless, but in the meantime it what is she to do?

[Arabesque]

Originally Posted by Ibn Abu Ibrahim

You know...in the end it's the Wali who has final say over what the Mahr should be.

The girl just gets the money.

No the wali doesn't decide the mahr. He proposes, and accepts the mahr on behalf of the bride. The money then goes to the bride.

I hope some of you are only sharing unqualified opinions, not stating what really happens. It would be shocking to know if some of the things I;ve read on this thread is actually implemented, like the suggestion above.

I don't claim to be a 3alim or anything, but I've worked for the marriage courts back home. Our courts are mainly based on the Maliki and Shafi3i fiqh, but we do have qualified judges in all the four madhahib.

[Arabesque]

Originally Posted by ChotooMotoo

Planning for the possibility of divorce is not the same thing as getting married with the intention of divorce. One could even say that stipulating a delayed mehr in the event of divorce is a pretty good way to keep it from happening. He might treat you better if he knew that he has to pay you a large sum if you get divorced. I think that's the whole purpose of a delayed mehr anyway. Divorce, while allowed, is one of the most disliked acts by Allah (swt), so best to avoid it right?

The delayed dowry has nothing to do with divorce. A wife has the right to claim her delayed mahr any time and does not need to wait for a divorce. It's just "delayed", it's not conditioned by divorce.

[Jamroll]

Originally Posted by Arabesque

No the wali doesn't decide the mahr. He proposes, and accepts the mahr on behalf of the bride. The money then goes to the bride.

I hope some of you are only sharing unqualified opinions, not stating what really happens. It would be shocking to know if some of the things I;ve read on this thread is actually implemented, like the suggestion above.

I don't claim to be a 3alim or anything, but I've worked for the marriage courts back home. Our courts are mainly based on the Maliki and Shafi3i fiqh, but we do have qualified judges in all the four madhahib.

Yeah. Not only that, but also within the Hanafi school of fiqh (not sure about other schools), when a woman reaches a certain age, she can act as her own wali for the purposes of marriage, and doesn't need to get the permission of her father or other male relatives. So in that case, she would be involved in negotiating the mahr directly.

[Arabesque]

Originally Posted by Jamroll

Yeah. Not only that, but also within the Hanafi school of fiqh (not sure about other schools), when a woman reaches a certain age, she can act as her own wali for the purposes of marriage, and doesn't need to get the permission of her father or other male relatives. So in that case, she would be involved in negotiating the mahr directly.

I also learned something about a rukhsah only allowed in the Hanafi fiqh. If the husband is agreeable and there isn't a valid reason to reject him, but the father insists on being difficult, the judge will act as a wali, and the woman can marry without her father's permission. Marriage valid.

I told my mother that, and she said, "I don't care. We're Shafi3i "

[Jamroll]

Originally Posted by Arabesque

The delayed dowry has nothing to do with divorce. A wife has the right to claim her delayed mahr any time and does not need to wait for a divorce. It's just "delayed", it's not conditioned by divorce.

Strictly speaking, you're right, the mahr is to be given immediately at the commencement of the marriage, or shortly after. But there is the provision for it to be delayed, and in practice, it is often regarded as a divorce settlement. Often the argument given is that while the couple is married, their finances are one, etc, etc.

[Arabesque]

Originally Posted by Jamroll

Strictly speaking, you're right, the mahr is to be given immediately at the commencement of the marriage, or shortly after. But there is the provision for it to be delayed, and in practice, it is often regarded as a divorce settlement. Often the argument given is that while the couple is married, their finances are one, etc, etc.

I think it's become a cultural practice to assume that it's a marriage settlement, but it isn't. You have alimony for that. Of course, it is up to the wife whether she wants to ask for her mahr or not. If she doesn't take her delayed dowry, it will always go as back inheritance to her husband and kids.

[Jamroll]

Originally Posted by Arabesque

I also learned something about a rukhsah only allowed in the Hanafi fiqh. If the husband is agreeable and there isn't a valid reason to reject him, but the father insists on being difficult, the judge will act as a wali, and the woman can marry without her father's permission. Marriage valid.

I told my mother that, and she said, "I don't care. We're Shafi3i "

Lol @ what your mum said.

I mean, yeah there's the provision in Hanafi fiqh, but I don;t want