[sumiyia]

Originally Posted by LEGALEAGLE

I think you guys have the wrong idea...pre-nups are about more than ancillary matters..they are a 'statement of intent' from the parties...

Basically the parties are saying to each other this is what I expect..eg us going out and having a candle-lit dinner once a week...help with the ironing, washing up...its not absolute but if the couple are having problems it allows them to look again at whats going wrong

i just dont find that to be necessary. kind of a waste of time.

[LEGALEAGLE]

*IS APPALLED THAT THE FIRST THING PEOPLE THINK WHEN THEY THINK OF MARRIAGE IS FINANCIAL ISSUES*

A Pre-Nup is NOT i repeat NOT just about ancillary matters...

[Bruinrab]

To echo sumiya and sally, I don't see what the real difference is between a pre-nup as Legal has specified and a well thought out nikkah. Other than the fact that a nikkah can (and should) specify what goes into a pre-nup, in addition to solemnizing the marriage legally.

I'm curious now. Anyone have a link to a sample nikkah? I'd like to see exactly what can and can't be specified.

[Laimuun]

I didn't sign a prenup.. my husband didn't ask me too.

I wouldn't have really had a problem signing one if he did, depending on what it stated. I really don't think 50-50 is unfair if both parties work and contribute to bills, etc.

since I have worked and will work again once I'm done with school and will contribute towards house payments, car payments, etc, why wouldn't I get half if (God forbid) we were to split up? I wouldn't be trying to "be greedy" and get half of his money, I'd be making sure I got my share in what we owned and earned together. a woman has to look out for herself too.

I understand that if only the husband is working, then 50/50 isn't really a fair split. but that's between the couple to decide.

and I really don't know why guys paint women as greedy, money grubbing hos. I've only ever known of one case where the woman took her husband to the cleaners when divorcing.. but in her case, it was a bit understandable because (not to go into details) of his behavior toward her while they were married.

[LEGALEAGLE]

Originally Posted by Bruinrab

To echo sumiya and sally, I don't see what the real difference is between a pre-nup as Legal has specified and a well thought out nikkah. Other than the fact that a nikkah can (and should) specify what goes into a pre-nup, in addition to solemnizing the marriage legally.

I'm curious now. Anyone have a link to a sample nikkah? I'd like to see exactly what can and can't be specified.

I can get you one monday...

[Salika]

Originally Posted by Hanbali

I agree with this. Yes, neither man nor wife is superior or inferior in essence or in the eyes of God. Yet, it should be clear--and I think Sister Salika would know this--that the husband has a higher rank of authority than the wife, just like the mother has a higher rank than the son, etc.

Yes, the husband has a higher "rank" in authority in the shari'a but frankly, I think many of the marriage laws are to, at best, maintain a stable marriage, particularly when there is no love or in troubling times. Marriage is not just legal standards here. It's involving people's feelings. There is love, affection, mercy, and understanding. It's not obligatory for a man to act like he's king of the house. I consult my husband of course but he also consults me. We're partners. In the end I do know that the final decision is his, but he doesn't rub it in my face. And there some thing he's actually deferred to me. Till this day, he refuses to tell me how many children he wants because he wants to leave it up to me because, as he said, he knows I'll be the one carrying them and it's something that I have to put up with the most.

With respect to nikkah contracts and pre-nups, most of it was actually along the lines of what LegalEagle is talking about. Money, aside from mahr, was not even discussed. We wrote down and discussed what we expect from our marriage, how we want to raise our children, and our goals together. I also gave myself the right to Islamically divorce myself (permissible in the Hanafi maddhab, women know your rights!) in certain situations (such as abuse or abandonment) instead of having to wait for him to divorce me or having to resort to going to court or khula'.

And my husband was not offended at all and supported me 110% (his family understandably thought I was a bit weird for putting the right to divorce myself, at that point I offered to take it out because by the time the nikkah rolled around, I trusted him, but he insisted that I leave it in). He really understood where I was coming from (with my parents' history and situations that occurred, like someone we know who lied to his wife about a lot important things coming to marriage and refuses to divorce her) and that I just want to protect myself because none of us really know where we'll be in 20 or 30 years. I saw it from a strictly from a legal standpoint and devoided all emotion from it. I kept telling him how much I hated writing it and I never wanted to look at it again (and I haven't).

[Salika]

Originally Posted by LEGALEAGLE

I think you guys have the wrong idea...pre-nups are about more than ancillary matters..they are a 'statement of intent' from the parties...

Basically the parties are saying to each other this is what I expect..eg us going out and having a candle-lit dinner once a week...help with the ironing, washing up...its not absolute but if the couple are having problems it allows them to look again at whats going wrong

I agree with this and exactly what I wanted it in. 20 years down the line with kid and work and the hustle and bustle of life, you might lose sight of your original intentions and I think the statements would do a great job in reminding yourself. And if it turns out you don't need it in the long run, that's cool, but for the 20 minutes it takes to put it together, it's comforting knowing you have it just in case.

[Hanbali]

Originally Posted by Salika

Yes, the husband has a higher "rank" in authority in the shari'a but frankly, I think many of the marriage laws are to, at best, maintain a stable marriage, particularly when there is no love or in troubling times. Marriage is not just legal standards here. It's involving people's feelings. There is love, affection, mercy, and understanding. It's not obligatory for a man to act like he's king of the house. I consult my husband of course but he also consults me. We're partners. In the end I do know that the final decision is his, but he doesn't rub it in my face. And there some thing he's actually deferred to me. Till this day, he refuses to tell me how many children he wants because he wants to leave it up to me because, as he said, he knows I'll be the one carrying them and it's something that I have to put up with the most.

Sister, I agree with you 10,000% . May Allah [swt] reward you for your even-handedness.

The best are those who are best to their wives. May we be from amongst those!

[IbnMardhiyah]

Originally Posted by LEGALEAGLE

You guys have the concept of Equity right ? Because Equity can look beyond the law so that clause may not be as reliable as you've been told

It was my legal counsel that suggested I add that clause, if the other corporate directors agreed. He's been doing this all of his legal career so far, and his areas of practice include corporate / commercial, trademarks, and more. He's a senior partner at his firm and is in his mid 40s; he's been at it for a while now.

I haven't added it yet because currently, none of the directors are married - including myself of course. As soon as the first one of us has his wedding date set, its something we will look into further.

[Haramoobobi]

Originally Posted by Hanbali

Well, I would never marry someone smarter than me (as if such a girl exists)

Let's recount all the threads I pwnd you in, shall we, oh dear brother in Islam?

[shadha]

Hanbali: Do you know that a wife has to obey her husband in whatever he asks her to do, unless he asks her to do haram? She is not even allowed to leave the house without his permission.

displaced, did you know that you have to ask your husbands permission before taking a ****? True story.


shadha-

[Arabatman]

Asalaamualaikum,

Originally Posted by Hanbali

Jam, how could be a disobedient wife be equal to an obedient one?

They might both be doing it for the sake of Allah(SWT)...

Asalaamualaikum,

-Zahid

[shadha]

Bruinrab: I'm curious now. Anyone have a link to a sample nikkah? I'd like to see exactly what can and can't be specified.

I didn't do up my contract but I did take a look over it before it was finalized. I admit, I should have taken a deeper look but I was too stressed out about other things to notice things about the contract that I now notice. I would now ixnay and add a couple things but it's whatever. Lol.

Anyway, this is the only mention of divorce [besides the polygyny clause of course ] in my contract:

Majid *** agrees that in the case of divorce: He takes 100% financial responsibility for all their children until the age of 18 or until they are legally responsible and self-sufficient. Majid *** also agrees to pay the children’s financial portion of whatever home they reside in, be it rent or mortgage in the full amount. Shadha M. Abdulaziz will maintain residence of the home with the children until the children reach maturity, and then the home will be sold and the proceeds spilt evenly between both parties.


shadha-

[nooni]

Originally Posted by Hanbali

Do you know that a wife has to obey her husband in whatever he asks her to do, unless he asks her to do haram? She is not even allowed to leave the house without his permission.

salam,

im not saying that a women shouldnt let her husband noe where she is going, because that would just be stupid if she didnt. then it will cause problems in the relationship.

but a husband needs to respect his wife as well and let her noe where and what he is doing. if a husband feels as though it is not his duty to tell a wife where he is going or go some place that his wife does not like, then no one on Earth can tell me that is not going to cause trust problems within a marriage. it will.

when a women is cooking dinner, and sees she has run out of tomatoes and the husband is not able to be contacted, it is NOT obligatory on her to wait until she gets hold of her husband before going to the grocery store to pick up tomatoes. i mean seriously, how did ppl do it back in the Prophet(SAWS) time when there was no cell phones then. no they did not wait until the husbands came home, im pretty sure they picked themselves up, went out, got whatever they needed and came home.

well i just realized i used dinner as an excuse and im sure some people may be like 'well yea she has to cook him dinner'. this analogy goes along with if she needs a break and needs to go out for a bit to catch some fresh air. we all noe how crazy life can get and being cramped up in a house or work all day does not do any one any good. therefore, a women does not need permission from her husband (got forbid hes not home) to go out and breathe a little and relax her mind.

i mean seriously, what kind of a relationship is it when a wife has to call her husband and say "do i have permission from you to go and take a walk" lets be realistic, all that has to be done is a wife calls her husband "hi honey, i need to get a fresh breathe of air, im going out for a 15min walk and ill be right back",

1) this shows that the wife cares about the husband,
2) it removes any future suspicions or mistrust had she not have told him and he heard it from the neighbor,

if the husband has a good excuse as to why she shouldnt go (i.e. a murder just occurred down the street a week ago, someone is coming shortly to drop off a package etc) then what wife wouldnt listen to her husband. but at least the relationship isnt reduced to a parent-child relationship.

wow, so after my rant, i agree with wat salika said few posts back