[Hanbali]

Originally Posted by displaced

really? what are your "kingly" qualities?

I'm amazing.

Aside from that though, you missed the point of my analogy. Actually, my analogy was a rewording of the wise words told to me by an older Muslim guy who said to me:

"Treat your wife like a princess, but always remember that you are the king."

let me preface what I'm about to say with this: I don't think a marriage can be 50-50 and am alright with conceding to my husband not because I have to

Do you know that a wife has to obey her husband in whatever he asks her to do, unless he asks her to do haram? She is not even allowed to leave the house without his permission.

does having a penis automatically make you worthy of respect? absolutely not.

That is a very crude way to put it. Astagfur-Allah. "When haya is lost, then do as you please!"

Originally Posted by Salika

I wrote my nikkah agreement (hubz asked me to) and it was kind of prenupish but I saw it purely as legal and devoided any emotion. My in-laws kind of took it the wrong way though. Alhamdulillah I probably won't need it though but I figured better safe than sorry. I encouraged him to put whatever he wanted but he didn't

Exactly. I don't see how there is anything wrong with asking for one.

I mean, if I divorce my wife, chances are we are on bad terms, and I certainly don't want to give her half of my stuff.

Anyways, husband and wife are not equal in the marriage, but there should be equity. Neither is inherently superior or inferior than the other.

I agree with this. Yes, neither man nor wife is superior or inferior in essence or in the eyes of God. Yet, it should be clear--and I think Sister Salika would know this--that the husband has a higher rank of authority than the wife, just like the mother has a higher rank than the son, etc.

Originally Posted by ChotooMotoo

As for the obedient thing. I wonder if people are reading obedient, and thinking subsurvient. In Islam, women are still allowed to not "obey" their husbands if he asks something outrageous.

You are just playing with wording. The general rule is that the wife must obey the husband in all matters, unless he asks her for something haram. So the matter is the same as mother to son.

Originally Posted by heba

jaysh, God help the woman who marries you. really, thats like a sincere duaa. poor poor girl

Oh come on, you of all people know how many girls wish to be that poor girl.

Originally Posted by ChotooMotoo

I knew a guy who used to say the same crap about the girl he would marry. Then he got married and did a complete 180. He was totally under her foot! I wonder if the same thing will happen if Jaysh ever gets married, one can hope right?

Haha, I'm not even denying it. I'll be totally dependent on my wife emotionally. That's just the way I am. I will treat her like a princess insha-Allah. Yet, I will use the iron fist policy on some issues, such as talking to other guys, what clothes she wears, etc. I will further not tolerate any 'bathameezi' in language nor her raising her voice; today, we have women saying 'shut up' and things like that to their husband. I will not at all tolerate that.

Originally Posted by shadha

Totally agreed upon.

Surprise, surprise!

Ibn: I'm a blue personality and I'd rather just be nice and generous if it all came down to a split and leave on good terms rather than having to deal with the bitter acrimony of having to enforce the prenup and maintain a facade.

Bro, that doesn't make much sense. If you are getting a divorce, then reality dictates that you are already NOT on good terms. Most likely you will be at a state of war with her if that were the case.

Originally Posted by Spice

Most men who churn out pre-nup garbage drop their gaurd after falling for a woman and end up totally whipped. They pretty much forget all about it.

We just seem to have that kind of affect

That's very true. Hence, the preemptive measures!

Originally Posted by Spice

and if I were about to MARRY a guy who was fretting over having me sign a bunch of prenup garbage I'd roll it up and smack him back to his senses.

But why? Is it just because you want to have half his stuff? To this, I'm sure you will say "I won't need his stuff" which is the typical rhetoric of girls...yet, it's just rhetoric, because when things go sour, the first thing they do is try to get half his stuff. If you really don't want or need half his stuff, then prove it and sign a document!

[Bruinrab]

Hanbali, is this going to be a marriage or Lord of the Flies?

[Revert]

I didn't do a pre nup..

You can't take half of nothing..

[IbnMardhiyah]

Originally Posted by Hanbali

Bro, that doesn't make much sense. If you are getting a divorce, then reality dictates that you are already NOT on good terms. Most likely you will be at a state of war with her if that were the case.

Just as an FYI ... there are a lot of amicable divorces out there. The couple are mature enough not to get into fights over their differences, but they just realize early on that for whatever inexorable reason its not going to work out, then they should just part ways in a fair and just manner.

If you imagine divorce time will leave your house looking like the scene from Mr. and Mrs. Smith, then may God help you.

[Hanbali]

Originally Posted by IbnMardhiyah

Just as an FYI ... there are a lot of amicable divorces out there. The couple are mature enough not to get into fights over their differences, but they just realize early on that for whatever inexorable reason its not going to work out, then they should just part ways in a fair and just manner.

If you imagine divorce time will leave your house looking like the scene from Mr. and Mrs. Smith, then may God help you.

No need for the stupid rhetoric of "may God help you". May divorces *do* end up in a state of war..most of them do. Yes, a small portion of them might end like you described, but most of them do not.

And any case, if you sign a prenup agreement, nothing stops you from giving to your wife half of your things or even all of your things.

[IbnMardhiyah]

Originally Posted by Hanbali

No need for the stupid rhetoric of "may God help you". May divorces *do* end up in a state of war..most of them do.

... and your evidence for such statements is?

[sumiyia]

whats the difference between a nikkah contract and a prenup?

[IbnMardhiyah]

Originally Posted by sumiyia

whats the difference between a nikkah contract and a prenup?

Pre-nup talks about who takes what in the event of a divorce, or what conditions would precipitate one, as well.

A nikkah contract doesn't do that.

[Bruinrab]

Originally Posted by IbnMardhiyah

... and your evidence for such statements is?

Shaykh Michael Douglas and Shaykha Kathleen Turner, as seen in the highly educational video, The War of the Roses.

[sally]

Originally Posted by sumiyia

whats the difference between a nikkah contract and a prenup?

yeah, i was going to mention that...really. you're already putting yourself not halfway but hopefully in entirety in the relationship.

i don't know. maybe i'm idealistic/naive. i've thought about prenups before. i don't know what i'm going to do when it's time to get married, truthfully. but right now my stance is kind of like, i would be a complete and utter fool to think that getting back half of the material assets my ex-husband and i once owned together will somehow make the divorce seem smoother...

[IbnMardhiyah]

Originally Posted by Bruinrab

Shaykh Michael Douglas and Shaykha Kathleen Turner, as seen in the highly educational video, The War of the Roses.

ohhhhh rigghhhttt!

Shk. Mika'eel Dagh al-Aas and Shka. Kath al-Ayn Tor-Noor

LYKE, DUHH!!!

[LEGALEAGLE]

Originally Posted by Raeesa

can we ask the same to the brothers.. although islamically women own theyre wealth, in british law at least the husband is able to take her a share of her property, wealth and investments. I wonder how many brothers would sign a prenup especially when there are smart, working women out there who r pretty well off..?

Pre-nups aren't absolutely enforceable in English Law. Once again there is *no* such thing as *british* law.

They may be considered as evidence of intentions.

Originally Posted by Hanbali

I like the idea of us ugly nerds marrying hot women. We got the brains/money, they got the trophy wife looks. Perfect balance.

I have a few female friends who I've considered in the past who make a lot more than me. None of those girls are arrogant or obsessed with money. Most of them are desperately unhappy because they have the career but not the family.

My money inshallah will be enough for my family. If the wife wants to work thats up to her....I'm not obsessed with how much more money we'd have if she was working too..

Originally Posted by Hanbali

On a serious and unbiased note, don't you think that women nowadays are disobedient and rebellious to their husbands?

Again, try not to let your opinion be affected by the fact that it is I who asked this.

As for 'rebellious' wives I know several women who are having affairs...money isn't the issue...its the nature of these women...they all have a particular type of mindset

Originally Posted by ShotgunMessiah

I don't think "rebellious" is the correct word to use, necessarily.

I think women nowadays are looking out for themselves more than historically, which I see as a good thing. It makes them less reliant on the husband, and in an era with divorce rates so high they need to be as independant as they can. If they can get a higher education and get a great job, more power to them.

Disobedient wives are one thing... adulterous wives another...

Originally Posted by Jamroll

They are confused and trying to do too much at once. This leads to chaos in their minds. It is not their fault. Don't blame them, help them.

Naughty Step could revolutionise the way we interact with others, because it doesn't punish or demean, but corrects bad behaviour.

hahahahahaha....

Originally Posted by PhDGirl

Not you - Jamroll. I know you're being serious.


I think you guys have this idea that women "back home" are all submissive and the ones raised in the West are not. That's not really true - there's a mix of people in both places.

The majority of women 'back home' are more family orientated...'submissive' is your term not mine.

Originally Posted by displaced

really? what are your "kingly" qualities?

let me preface what I'm about to say with this: I don't think a marriage can be 50-50 and am alright with conceding to my husband not because I have to but because each person in a marriage has to compromise for the sake of the comfort of their spouse.

however, I think it's interesting (to put it nicely) that a man assumes he should have an obedient wife. plenty of men are idiots and plenty of women are smarter. does having a penis automatically make you worthy of respect? absolutely not. you, jaysh, are arrogant and your personality doesn't command respect yet you expect it as your birthright.

Plenty of women get turned on by guys who throw their weight around...then get mad because the men continue to do it in the marriage.

Originally Posted by Jamroll

Because it depends on how we define "disobedient". Rather we should talk about the expectations gap.

A girl from back home is going to have a certain mindset. She is going to know what is expected of her in a traditional desi way. If we are expecting our wife to be aware of and accepting of the "tor tareekeh" of desi culture, then this will be favourable to us.
A girl raised over here is likely to be more independent minded. She will not need to be "looked after" as much, you won't have to make every decision for her. Some people would find this more favourable. Also, she is likely to have more in common with you culturally.

It depends on what you're looking for. From what you're saying you're looking for and expecting, I think PhDGirl's suggestion is a good one. Or you could pick a girl who is from the West but is from a lower economic background, or lower level of education than yourself. A well educated woman raised in the West who makes good money from a job, doesn't need a "husband" in the traditional way we might understand a husband. They need and want a companion. So the new husband role changes from provider and law giver, to companion.

You have to decide what you are looking for, and what you are willing to give.

WORD.

My point exactly

Originally Posted by Salika

I wrote my nikkah agreement (hubz asked me to) and it was kind of prenupish but I saw it purely as legal and devoided any emotion. My in-laws kind of took it the wrong way though. Alhamdulillah I probably won't need it though but I figured better safe than sorry. I encouraged him to put whatever he wanted but he didn't

Anyways, husband and wife are not equal in the marriage, but there should be equity. Neither is inherently superior or inferior than the other.

Jaysh
It's a bad idea to view marriage is one of obedience-disobedience. I think once you put a woman in that mindset, she'll actually be more likely to "rebel."

Exactly.