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Old 02-11-2008, 12:13 AM
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Default Cousin Marriages in the West

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle3342040.ece

A government minister has warned that inbreeding among immigrants is causing a surge in birth defects - comments likely to spark a new row over the place of Muslims in British society.

Phil Woolas, an environment minister, said the culture of arranged marriages between first cousins was the “elephant in the room”. Woolas, a former race relations minister, said: “If you have a child with your cousin the likelihood is there’ll be a genetic problem.”

The minister, whose views were supported by medical experts this weekend, said: “The issue we need to debate is first cousin marriages, whereby a lot of arranged marriages are with first cousins, and that produces lots of genetic problems in terms of disability [in children].”

Woolas emphasised the practice did not extend to all Muslim communities but was confined mainly to families originating from rural Pakistan. However, up to half of all marriages within these communities are estimated to involve first cousins.

Medical research suggests that while British Pakistanis are responsible for 3% of all births, they account for one in three British children born with genetic illnesses.

The minister’s comments come as Rowan Williams, the Archbishop of Canterbury, rejected calls to resign over claims that Islamic law should be introduced in Britain. “I’m not contemplating resignation,” he told friends.

Williams insists his remarks were misinterpreted and that he was not advocating a parallel sharia jurisdiction for Muslims, but Lord Carey, his predecessor, warned acceptance of Muslim laws in Britain would be "disastrous".

The archbishop is believed to have received hate mail since he made his controversial comments but has rejected offers of round-the-clock police protection.

Williams is set to clash with the government again this week by voicing opposition to plans to extend detention without charge for terrorist suspects to 42 days.

Woolas, who represents the ethnically mixed seat of Oldham East and Saddleworth, has previously warned that Muslim women who wear headscarves could provoke “fear and resentment”. Yesterday, he was similarly outspoken.

“If you talk to any primary care worker they will tell you that levels of disability among the . . . Pakistani population are higher than the general population. And everybody knows it’s caused by first cousin marriage.

“That’s a cultural thing rather than a religious thing. It is not illegal in this country.

“The problem is that many of the parents themselves and many of the public spokespeople are themselves products of first cousin marriages. It’s very difficult for people to say ‘you can’t do that’ because it’s a very sensitive, human thing.”

He added that the issue is not talked about. “The health authorities look into it. Most health workers and primary care trusts in areas like mine are very aware of it. But it’s a very sensitive issue. That’s why it’s not even a debate and people outside of these areas don’t really know it exists.”

Woolas was supported by Ann Cryer, Labour MP for Keighley, who called for the NHS to do more to warn parents of the dangers of inbreeding.

“This is to do with a medieval culture where you keep wealth within the family,” she said.

“If you go into a paediatric ward in Bradford or Keighley you will find more than half of the kids there are from the Asian community. Since Asians only represent 20%-30% of the population, you can see that they are over represented.

“I have encountered cases of blindness and deafness. There was one poor girl who had to have an oxygen tank on her back and breathe from a hole in the front of her neck.

“The parents were warned they should not have any more children. But when the husband returned again from Pakistan, within months they had another child with exactly the same condition.”
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Old 02-11-2008, 12:40 AM
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Default Re: Cousin Marriages in the West

I don't know, it sounds like one of those notoriously biased studies to me. A while back I was curious about whether cousin marriages were really so prone to genetic defects. The only study I could find that was some sort of credible, simply said that after successive generations, the risk of some congenital problems could be magnified.
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Old 02-11-2008, 07:01 AM
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Default Re: Cousin Marriages in the West

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Originally Posted by Variable View Post
I don't know, it sounds like one of those notoriously biased studies to me. A while back I was curious about whether cousin marriages were really so prone to genetic defects. The only study I could find that was some sort of credible, simply said that after successive generations, the risk of some congenital problems could be magnified.
Well this is exactly what is happening in places like Keighley, which was mentioned in the article. Some of these people have been marrying their cousins for generations and the effect is actually plain to be seen. I grew up there, and I went to school with children who had all kinds of congenital health problems, and all of them were Pakistani, from this one rural area which makes up the majprity of Keighley's Pakistani population.

However, this comment is just plain stupid:
Quote:
Phil Woolas...a former race relations minister, said: “If you have a child with your cousin the likelihood is there’ll be a genetic problem.”
One incidence of first-cousin marriage in a family is not that much more likely to produce a child with a genetic problem than a marriage between an unrelated couple.
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Old 02-11-2008, 11:23 AM
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Default Re: Cousin Marriages in the West

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Originally Posted by Pushpa View Post
Well this is exactly what is happening in places like Keighley, which was mentioned in the article. Some of these people have been marrying their cousins for generations and the effect is actually plain to be seen.

One incidence of first-cousin marriage in a family is not that much more likely to produce a child with a genetic problem than a marriage between an unrelated couple.
That's the thing, a sprinkling of cousin marriages here and there isn't a problem. The problem occurs when the grandparents are cousins, the parents are all double cousins, and the husband and wife are cousins. Then you might be asking for trouble.

Quick question: is the prevalance of cousin marriages in Britain due to keeping wealth in a family? I always thought it had more to do with convenience than anything else.
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Old 02-11-2008, 11:43 AM
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Default Re: Cousin Marriages in the West

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Originally Posted by raatkirani2005 View Post
Quick question: is the prevalance of cousin marriages in Britain due to keeping wealth in a family? I always thought it had more to do with convenience than anything else.
I'm not sure, I thought the same as you but I may be wrong.
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Old 02-11-2008, 11:51 AM
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Default Re: Cousin Marriages in the West

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Originally Posted by raatkirani2005 View Post
That's the thing, a sprinkling of cousin marriages here and there isn't a problem. The problem occurs when the grandparents are cousins, the parents are all double cousins, and the husband and wife are cousins. Then you might be asking for trouble.

Quick question: is the prevalance of cousin marriages in Britain due to keeping wealth in a family? I always thought it had more to do with convenience than anything else.
Its to do with convenience although people from Mirpur do seem to do it as a habit.
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Old 02-11-2008, 06:13 PM
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Default Re: Cousin Marriages in the West

So what's the solution? I personally don't come from a family that is in the least bit cultural so I really find it hard to relate/sympathize.
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Old 02-11-2008, 06:15 PM
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Default Re: Cousin Marriages in the West

Medical research suggests that while British Pakistanis are responsible for 3% of all births, they account for one in three British children born with genetic illnesses.

Woooooow.


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Old 02-11-2008, 06:37 PM
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Default Re: Cousin Marriages in the West

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Originally Posted by LEGALEAGLE View Post
Its to do with convenience although people from Mirpur do seem to do it as a habit.
Most Mirpur people are quite hardcore about marriage. They marry within, and at such tender ages. Its actually quite interesting. I have very close family friends who're Mirpuri and live in the UK.
They're really great people in general though, mashAllah
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Old 02-11-2008, 06:42 PM
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Default Re: Cousin Marriages in the West

Yeah, we really have to stop with the inbreeding.


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Old 02-11-2008, 07:01 PM
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Default Re: Cousin Marriages in the West

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Originally Posted by Good_ol_JR View Post
So what's the solution? I personally don't come from a family that is in the least bit cultural so I really find it hard to relate/sympathize.
teach people how to interact in halal ways so that they don't feel forced to marry cousins to extracate themselves from haram relationships. In my old masjid, we had a big lecture series and seminar about teaching muslim boys and girls how to interact in halal ways, so the muslim boys don't go dating christian girls.
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Old 02-11-2008, 07:32 PM
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Default Re: Cousin Marriages in the West

This is another pick-on-the-pakistanis thread.
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Old 02-11-2008, 07:34 PM
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Default Re: Cousin Marriages in the West

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Originally Posted by Timbit View Post
Yeah, we really have to stop with the inbreeding.


I thought you were all for marrying your cousin?
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Old 02-11-2008, 07:34 PM
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Default Re: Cousin Marriages in the West

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This is another pick-on-the-pakistanis thread.
I wasn't trying to pick on Pakistani's. My old community had only 3 Pakistani families in the whole 2 village area, everyone else was arab, which a handful of Indians thrown in for fun. Boys will be boys, and if they don't have a halal way to interact with muslim girls, and get married to girls in their community, they could very easily fall into haram relationships with Christians/other girls whom they feel more comfortable interacting with.
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Old 02-11-2008, 07:36 PM
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Default Re: Cousin Marriages in the West

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Originally Posted by Timbit View Post
Yeah, we really have to stop with the inbreeding.


omg, what's wrong with inbreeding?!??
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