[Arabesque]

Originally Posted by Revert

The way i see it is if you need a contract then don't get married, thats just a personal view.

Marriage requires the consent of the wali and the presence of two witnesses. The "consent" and the "witnesses" are part of any contract that involves mu3amalat (dealings). Marriage also involves mu3amalat, because there's going to be a financial provider and of course the question of inheritance, or alimony in the event of divorce.

Besides, the word 3aqd in Arabic literally means "tie or knot". So when one says, "The man 3aqqad on this woman", it means "he married her/tied the knot with her", and that is the fiqhi definition for all types of 3uqood.

In reality, however, marriage is a social contract. So once you have done your ishhaar (to announce to the public) and people come to know you're married, that's considered enough. But in today's world there are too many complications, and a written contract is necessary. Say a man stops paying his nafaqah to his wife or divorcee - the only way a woman can prove she was married once or divorced is by presenting a written document to support her claim.

Also, if a husband dies and his family refuse to give the wife her inheritance, she might need to prove she was married to the husband as well. It might not be necessary if you have witnesses and stuff, but let's be realistic. People lie. You can "hire" witnesses these days. Also, if you live abroad where not many people know you, it's going to be difficult to claim your rights. A contract is good, especially for women.

[Anderson]

Clauses I'd like to add.

1.Three slap limit, she can slap me as many times as she wants I don't really care but she has to give me 3 slaps and not make a big deal about it.

2. Possibility to extend clause one at monthly meetings with a simple electoral college vote- the more you weigh the more electoral points you have.

That's about it.

[Revert]

Originally Posted by Arabesque

Marriage requires the consent of the wali and the presence of two witnesses. The "consent" and the "witnesses" are part of any contract that involves mu3amalat (dealings). Marriage also involves mu3amalat, because there's going to be a financial provider and of course the question of inheritance, or alimony in the event of divorce.

Besides, the word 3aqd in Arabic literally means "tie or knot". So when one says, "The man 3aqqad on this woman", it means "he married her/tied the knot with her", and that is the fiqhi definition for all types of 3uqood.

In reality, however, marriage is a social contract. So once you have done your ishhaar (to announce to the public) and people come to know you're married, that's considered enough. But in today's world there are too many complications, and a written contract is necessary. Say a man stops paying his nafaqah to his wife or divorcee - the only way a woman can prove she was married once or divorced is by presenting a written document to support her claim.

Also, if a husband dies and his family refuse to give the wife her inheritance, she might need to prove she was married to the husband as well. It might not be necessary if you have witnesses and stuff, but let's be realistic. People lie. You can "hire" witnesses these days. Also, if you live abroad where not many people know you, it's going to be difficult to claim your rights. A contract is good, especially for women.

I meant a contract in the western sense of a written notarised document. A marriage certificate stating that you were married on a certain date with witnesses signing it is not what i meant by a contract. I understand what you mean though, my point was if you are worried that your spouse is going to cheat you somehow then a Pre Nuptual contract won't save the marriage...just find somone else who is trustworthy.

Originally Posted by Anderson

Clauses I'd like to add.

1.Three slap limit, she can slap me as many times as she wants I don't really care but she has to give me 3 slaps and not make a big deal about it.

2. Possibility to extend clause one at monthly meetings with a simple electoral college vote- the more you weigh the more electoral points you have.

That's about it.

I gotta spread rep

[Bluestar]

marriage contract? It's a receipt, innit?

[Arabesque]

Originally Posted by Revert

I meant a contract in the western sense of a written notarised document. A marriage certificate stating that you were married on a certain date with witnesses signing it is not what i meant by a contract. I understand what you mean though, my point was if you are worried that your spouse is going to cheat you somehow then a Pre Nuptual contract won't save the marriage...just find somone else who is trustworthy.

I guess we're in total agreement there!

To be honest, a marriage contract is basically just that. At least where I come from. The names, the date, the amount of mahr received. The amount of the delayed dowry promised. The signature of the wali the two witnesses, and the mullah who married them off. I haven't really seen people put anything other than that.

[iTz_NoT_Me_iTzZu]

Originally Posted by Revert

I meant a contract in the western sense of a written notarised document. A marriage certificate stating that you were married on a certain date with witnesses signing it is not what i meant by a contract. I understand what you mean though, my point was if you are worried that your spouse is going to cheat you somehow then a Pre Nuptual contract won't save the marriage...just find somone else who is trustworthy.

I agree completely. If you think you'll need to put stuff like "thou shalt not beat me, or I will seek a divorce" in your contract, then don't marry the guy.

[zakk]

Um, even if the law attempts to uphold the document, he can easily become a deadbeat. And it's fairly hard to pursue.

The thing is, if you want to have a contract, that's fine. But ultimately a sheet of paper or even a court of law won't stop an idiot from finding a new way to be an idiot. This is why we marry people that we know to be good Muslims, because when a marriage has to come down to contracts, arbritration, mediation, or anything which indicates the marriage is in conflict, it's no longer his affection for you, but his fear and love of Allah that will keep him treating you right and respecting the agreements between you. It is in these times of conflict that each party must remember their own responsibility to Allah, and not cause more conflict by getting overly upset. Also, it helps to remember in those times, that Allah is the ultimate Provider and Sustainer. Our Iman is not on our wealth, our marriage, or our stipulations to provide for us; rather Allah provides for us through those things, and can certainly provide for us without those things, as long as we can remain calm and steadfast.

It can be a real problem if you wholeheartedly expect the law to do a whole lot for you.

Anyway, I didn't have a contract beyond the marriage certificate stipulating the mahr.

Also, I've met girls who are so anti doing anything related to getting more than a few token things for mahr, but put quite a few really nit picky things in the contract. Which to me is odd, because while mahr is an established Islamic institution, contracts with extra stipulations are a relatively new thing. And contracts which say things like "you have to do the dishes and take out the trash" IMHO refuse to take into account that a marriage has to hit a rhythm, and takes some time to do so, and eventually you have to do whatever works. (I'm not saying anyone in this thread is like this, I've actually met people like this. these are the same people who call extended family meetings to adjure their husbands to remember to pick their socks up off the floor.)

[shadha]

Timbit: Are they legally binding?
But do you want your spouse legally bound to... "let" you continue your education, say? I mean, if they say no, then there are already some issues in your marriage. You wanna remind them that legally, they have to "allow" you to do what they agreed to, and remain married to them?
And in the West, you can get a divorce whenever you want for any reason you want. You can get divorced just 'cause you don't like your spouse anymore. So what's the point of saying "If you get a second wife, we're getting divorced"??

Again, yes, it is legally binding, unless there are illegal stipulations in the contract that the court of law can't enforce.

The education allowance in the contract is strange to me, since I don’t feel that anyone has the right to not allow for the education of another. However, sadly, I have witnessed this happened to a few sisters by their husbands in my community. Come to think of it, I can see why some would feel more comfortable with it in there.

Though, I did mention child support, which goes a long way in the court of law. If he won’t pay it, you can take him to court and the court will enforce it, and if still he won’t pay it, then the court will have it automatically taken out of his checks.

The point of rejecting a second wife in the contract is that, yes you can get legally divorced any given day for any given reason but that doesn’t make you Islamically divorced. Big difference between the two. For example, a few Madhabs don’t allow a divorce in the case of a second wife if nothing was written in the contract against it. So, there you go.

Yeah, you should marry a practicing righteous person but Allahu Alim anything can happen and that’s why you should tie up your camel.


shadha-

[Rain]

Originally Posted by Bluestar

marriage contract? It's a receipt, innit?

yeah, so you can return the goods if you're not happy. i like that.

[wheelworks]

Originally Posted by Rain

yeah, so you can return the goods if you're not happy. i like that.

Return the goods to whom?

[Caramel_Candy]

Originally Posted by wheelworks

Return the goods to whom?

His mom....

[lol_lol]

marriage sucks.

[wheelworks]

Originally Posted by Caramel_Candy

His mom....

Moms don't own sons

Originally Posted by lol_lol

marriage sucks.

marriage sucks.

Don't worry...You're view will chance soon enough once you Insha Allah get married

[lol_lol]

Originally Posted by wheelworks

Moms don't own sons



marriage sucks.

Don't worry...You're view will chance soon enough once you Insha Allah get married

i dont plan on getting married, and if unfortuantly i do get married, there will most definitely be a prenup/contract.

also i wanted to ask shada wrote
The point of rejecting a second wife in the contract is that, yes you can get legally divorced any given day for any given reason but that doesn’t make you Islamically divorced. Big difference between the two. For example, a few Madhabs don’t allow a divorce in the case of a second wife if nothing was written in the contract against it. So, there you go.

wtf????

[Aryan_]

A no polygamy clause is okay as long as it's tied in with a promise not to put weight on.

Every 2 lbs your wife puts on over her ideal weight lets you have another wife. She puts on 4lbs, you get two extra wives. If you ever catch her cheating on you with Mr. Ben and Mr Jerry then you get all four wives and her younger sister as a concubine.