[Timbit]

Originally Posted by Jamroll

Wouldn't it feel worse if he cheated on you with a guy, rather than a girl? Cos, isn't it like, if he cheats with a girl, then he's a lowdown dirty dog, but if he cheats with a guy, it's like whoa, you turned him gay.

Nah, I think it'd feel better actually.

'Cause it's like he was probably always gay and just wasn't attracted to women in general. So it wasn't me; it really was him.

[Jamroll]

Originally Posted by Timbit

Nah, I think it'd feel better actually.

'Cause it's like he was probably always gay and just wasn't attracted to women in general. So it wasn't me; it really was him.

Well, it always was him if he cheated, but wouldn't you feel that he thought you were so bad that you put him off women for life, so he turned gay? You singlehandedly turned the guy gay, no?

[Timbit]

Originally Posted by Jamroll

Well, it always was him if he cheated, but wouldn't you feel that he thought you were so bad that you put him off women for life, so he turned gay? You singlehandedly turned the guy gay, no?

No.
There's no such thing as being able to turn somebody gay. He was probably always gay.

If your husband cheats with a woman, people always blame you.... like maybe you let yourself go or you weren't treating him right or something was missing at home, yada yada yada. So at some level, you'd probably think it might have been you.

If he cheats with a man though, then it's not your fault at all. No matter what you could have done, you sure couldn't have turned yourself into a man.

[hijabihoodlum]

Originally Posted by MossadConspiracy

even though this is a normal part of their culture and a tradition and heritage that has been passed down to them from centuries of their ancestors, and the practice of pederasty is many millenia old, and so on...

its all relative. you are raised in a culture that accepts and embraces homosexuality so you argue against those who oppose it. you're raised in a culture that considers homosexuality to be an aberration that should be hidden away and never discussed, and which has a very strong religious sanction against the practice, so you oppose it.

ws

i don't think it's all relative, especially considering the fact that cultures are often chock full of horrific and inhumane practices. if tribe X were to make it a regular practice to throw a member to a pack of wolves during the growing season, does that make it alright? absolutely not. morals are not relative. sodomy is haraam for reasons- some which we know and others which we probably don't. society starts at the level of a couple- male and female, so that they can have children, etc. it's not really narrow minded, i hope, to say that this setup proves ideal for a growing healthy society.

sodomy is an act and homosexuality is an "orientation" as we're like to call it these days. do you all really think that sexuality is so simple as to be black and white? surely our understanding even from a biological standpoint is more sophisticated than that. not all females are the same level of "womanly" and not all males are the same level of "manly." that's just diversity, not some weird sexually confused understanding of men and women. i just feel like this is total common sense.

anyway, having a tendency is one thing and acting on it is another. if i were to have the tendency to steal things, that doesn't make stealing alright. and while some might say that sodomy has no negative effects on anyone else, i would argue otherwise; i think it has vast negative effects on how society itself is setup and that homosexuals marrying eats away at the foundations of a solid community.

does that mean i'm going to treat gay people, open or closeted, like they're sub-human? absolutely not. hate the act, not the person. and often, there's no act involved.

so having an openly gay kid- that would be tough. i really don't think a mother can avoid loving her child, regardless of what they're like. i think it would just involve tons of du'a and discussion. i think cutting off ties would be counter productive and i'd be afraid of what consequences i'd face in the afterlife if i were responsible for causing a child of mine undue pain. then again, i really dont know what i'd actually do; this is just theorizing.

[shadha]

Timbit: I don't think cheating is humiliating or trifling, no matter who your spouse is cheating with. It says more about them than it does about you anyhow... no need to be humiliated or more humiliated if your husband cheats with a man.

I totally disagree but it's personal feelings, so there's no point in trying to debate it eh?

Timbit: And I wouldn't marry somebody like that.
Why marry a gay man? You mean if they told you after marriage?


I was referring to after marriage him disclosing his feelings to me.


shadha-

[Timbit]

Originally Posted by shadha

I totally disagree but it's personal feelings, so there's no point in trying to debate it eh?

Sure, but why do you disagree?

Originally Posted by shadha

I was referring to after marriage him disclosing his feelings to me.

Yeah, uh... divorce.

[Variable]

Originally Posted by hijabihoodlum

anyway, having a tendency is one thing and acting on it is another. if i were to have the tendency to steal things, that doesn't make stealing alright. and while some might say that sodomy has no negative effects on anyone else, i would argue otherwise; i think it has vast negative effects on how society itself is setup and that homosexuals marrying eats away at the foundations of a solid community.

At the risk of sounding repetitive, I don't see how gays marrying is going to be detrimental to the foundation of our society. What will change that will be so different? What specific mechanism(s) will affect us so severely?

Even if they didn't marry, do you think there would still be vast negative consequences?

I don't mean to sound like a broken record player here.

[hijabihoodlum]

Originally Posted by Variable

At the risk of sounding repetitive, I don't see how gays marrying is going to be detrimental to the foundation of our society. What will change that will be so different? What specific mechanism(s) will affect us so severely?

Even if they didn't marry, do you think there would still be vast negative consequences?

I don't mean to sound like a broken record player here.

i think that having a mother and father is important in the upbringing of a child; men and women bring different things to the table emotionally, spiritually, etc., and it's important for people to be influenced by both genders. i don't mean to say that you can only be normal if you have a mother and father (i know plenty of single parent households), but i think it's a positive thing.

i think what some of this comes down to is gender roles and how important you think they are in society. personally, i think they're very important. it's the yin and yang thing; i think you need both to have harmony. i don't think they need to be strictly defined in the sense that women should stay at home and men should go earn bread, but i think it's healthy and productive to acknowledge the complementary differences that exist between men and women and how those differences play out in our world. marriage is (historically, at least) the ultimate in gender interaction and that's why it's so important in the way society works; take it away and family structure is much more fluid and fragile- children are more often brought up in single-parent homes and prone to emotional distress, parents are more prone to financial problems, etc.

marriage to me is a sacred union between an unrelated man and a woman and i don't see how a same gender marriage would even remotely be the same. so to institutionalize gay marriage, i feel, would be an assault on the concept of marriage itself. to me, that's sad; i think marriage is important to a healthy society, and increasingly we're seeing it lose meaning.

sorry; i know i ramble but i hope i answered your question somewhere in there. i feel it's detrimental because it twists the concept of what marriage is.

[Variable]

Originally Posted by hijabihoodlum

i think that having a mother and father is important in the upbringing of a child; men and women bring different things to the table emotionally, spiritually, etc., and it's important for people to be influenced by both genders. i don't mean to say that you can only be normal if you have a mother and father (i know plenty of single parent households), but i think it's a positive thing.

i think what some of this comes down to is gender roles and how important you think they are in society. personally, i think they're very important. it's the yin and yang thing; i think you need both to have harmony. i don't think they need to be strictly defined in the sense that women should stay at home and men should go earn bread, but i think it's healthy and productive to acknowledge the complementary differences that exist between men and women and how those differences play out in our world. marriage is (historically, at least) the ultimate in gender interaction and that's why it's so important in the way society works; take it away and family structure is much more fluid and fragile- children are more often brought up in single-parent homes and prone to emotional distress, parents are more prone to financial problems, etc.

marriage to me is a sacred union between an unrelated man and a woman and i don't see how a same gender marriage would even remotely be the same. so to institutionalize gay marriage, i feel, would be an assault on the concept of marriage itself. to me, that's sad; i think marriage is important to a healthy society, and increasingly we're seeing it lose meaning.

sorry; i know i ramble but i hope i answered your question somewhere in there. i feel it's detrimental because it twists the concept of what marriage is.

Correct me if I'm wrong then, but what you're arguing has major consequences to society is same-sex marriages, not necessarily homosexuality as a whole.

When it comes to bringing up kids in same-gender households, I completely agree, I think a kid deserves every chance to have influence from both a mother and father. I don't think gay couples should be allowed to adopt.

As for how it twists the concept of marriage, I must say I've never understood how. I don't see a same-sex marriage (or anyone else's marriage for that matter) as an affront to my own, or the institution as a whole. I do acknowledge that it offends many people, but I don't see exactly how it hurts society. It's just a different state of being. Those complimentary roles for men and women are still there, they're dominant, and they're acknowledged. I'm not really arguing for or against gay marriages... just to throw out my own take on it.

[Bluestar]

Originally Posted by Variable

When it comes to bringing up kids in same-gender households, I completely agree, I think a kid deserves every chance to have influence from both a mother and father. I don't think gay couples should be allowed to adopt.

Have you ever met kids brought up by gay couples?

[Variable]

Originally Posted by Bluestar

Have you ever met kids brought up by gay couples?

Nope, that's just my guess. But it's not totally arbitrary, from growing up with people who had little significant influence of both genders and other situations.

[IbnAbdullah]

Originally Posted by shadha

AsSalamu' Alaykum,

It's no secret that in Western societies homosexuality is on the verge of quickly becoming a norm, if it isn't already.

What I can't help but to wonder, what if, GOD FORBID! AstaghfiruAllah times 3! Gonna go make wudu!, my child comes to me and says, "Mom I'm gay." What would I do?

What would you do?

Outcast your child from the family? Accept your child's flaw [and everything that comes with it...they bring their partner along for family gatherings, it's made known to the Muslim community, they want to get married...the whole shabang] but continue to have a loving close relationship? Or would you set down restrictions but continue to have a loving close relationship with your child? Secretly ship your child overseas where there is capital punishment for such crime?

I'm just curious.


shadha-

What if the child comes to his mother and says, 'Mom, I wanna marry a dog', would the Mum adopt a 'female dog' for her son because her son was born as a Beastiliatist?

[Bluestar]

Originally Posted by Variable

Nope, that's just my guess. But it's not totally arbitrary, from growing up with people who had little significant influence of both genders and other situations.

There's a lot that happens in single sex families such as a split up, arguments before separation or individuals shape their childrens perceptions so maybe it's not always based on the quantity/gender balance of the family unit? I've met kids who've come from a gay household. Only breifly though, i've heard more about them than i've seen, they're commended for being very intelligent and understanding.

[revivalist786]

throw the homosexual child off the tallest building because it is the prescribed punishment of allah azza wajaal..

or

become like the ppl of lut (as) and we all know what happened to them..

may allah destroy the homosexuals
may allah cause those who support homosexuals destruction
ameen