[Revert]

Originally Posted by Bluestar

i don't see them as relevant analogies. Alkies/Druggies/gamblers usually hurt others by stealing from them or being abusive in their relationships due to stress. However, since i know alkies and druggies, i can safely say yes i would have that attitude. They know when it's time to get help and sort out their lives and it's better to leave them to it because they won't change if someone forces them into it. It won't help their rehabilitating process if they're repeatedly told it's evil. But yeah, i don't see similarities in gay people and alkies

if you're edging towards "Kill the gays", you may be the one who needs help!

Actually I was reffering to them in the sense that they are all divinely prohibited. As such you should hate each act (not person commiting the act) equally.

I only edge toward that mentallity when they break the Laws fo Allah(swt). Then again they need ot be treated in the right way(according to Divine Law) and there needs to be witnesses to the act (unless its one of them wierd parties then thats not likley) if not allahu alim, i pray they know the consequences of their actions. As we all should when doing the haraam.

[Bluestar]

yeah, there's enough hate in this world already. I can't hate, it's not in my nature. I either leave or i love

plus my gaydar is atrocious i'd end up hating the postman because he lifted his arm in girly fashion

[Ilikemyscarf]

Originally Posted by Variable

Anything that involves sexual desire etc is deviancy?
To say that because they haven't found a gay gene doesn't mean that there's no biological explanation for homosexuality. Some say that there is no such thing as God because there is no scientific proof...

Do you think people decide one day to be gay out of the blue?

Excellent question indeed.

Variable,
People decide to be gay for different reason. For example, children that grow up with no male role model or a failed one. Or people that were sexually abused. I still don't think it makes it right though.
I would say it's a sexual deviation, instead of a mental illness or a sexual disorder. There has yet to be a scientifically proven biological explanation for homosexuality. There is simply no evidence for it. Plus, children of homosexual parents aren't likely to turn out any more homosexual than a child that's been raised by heterosexual parents. It's not hereditary. As for the question of the existence of God, that's a whole differrent topic. But I've made my views clear from the religious stance.

[sak01]

Originally Posted by Variable

You made an assertion that the people of Lut normalized homosexuality.

No, I made the assertion they were one of the civilisations and the very first to normalise it in their own society. There were and are other societies that did and do so too but that has no impact on homosexual acts being prohibited and punishable in Islam.

The Qur'an and the Sunnah are our sources of guidance to ascertain this and on this issue it is very very clear.

Regarding, your objective analysis/debate, please continue.

[Variable]

Originally Posted by Ilikemyscarf

Variable,
People decide to be gay for different reason. For example, children that grow up with no male role model or a failed one. Or people that were sexually abused. I still don't think it makes it right though.

How does being sexually abused make one gay? You're saying there is no proof that there are biological reasons... similarly there's no proof that abuse causes homosexuality either. I have a couple of gay friends, and they've grown up with strong male role models, close and supportive families, and they weren't sexually abused. They certainly didn't choose to go through the pain involved with coming out when they could have simply 'decided' to be heterosexual. Indeed one of my friends tried his best to be straight.

I would say it's a sexual deviation, instead of a mental illness or a sexual disorder. There has yet to be a scientifically proven biological explanation for homosexuality. There is simply no evidence for it.

In fact there is evidence that biological factors are involved with sexual orientation following tests in fruit flies. But most people who support this line of thinking would argue that there's probably not going to be a single biological explanation, but instead a number of coinciding factors combined with cultural and environmental ones.

As for it not being hereditary, I'd argue that there's no way for us to no that because no objective study exists on it... and I think it'd be impossible for one to be conducted. If it were, then those societies which allow open homosexuality would probably be free of the issue, because homosexuals don't reproduce when paired with their preferred gender.

I personally don't believe it's hereditary, but certainly that there is a biological component.

As for the question of the existence of God, that's a whole differrent topic. But I've made my views clear from the religious stance.

It is another topic, but the argument is the same. It's a negative argument - in that it says "something doesn't exist because there's no proof for it". And that's just not the case.

[Variable]

Originally Posted by sak01

No, I made the assertion they were one of the civilisations and the very first to normalise it in their own society. There were and are other societies that did and do so too but that has no impact on homosexual acts being prohibited and punishable in Islam.

Well you didn't exactly say that, but what I'll say on that is that good religion often makes bad history. Though I've never used that (or anything else for that matter) to try and legitimize homosexuality within the context of Islam.

[Ilikemyscarf]

Originally Posted by Variable

How does being sexually abused make one gay? You're saying there is no proof that there are biological reasons... similarly there's no proof that abuse causes homosexuality either. I have a couple of gay friends, and they've grown up with strong male role models, close and supportive families, and they weren't sexually abused. They certainly didn't choose to go through the pain involved with coming out when they could have simply 'decided' to be heterosexual. Indeed one of my friends tried his best to be straight.



In fact there is evidence that biological factors are involved with sexual orientation following tests in fruit flies. But most people who support this line of thinking would argue that there's probably not going to be a single biological explanation, but instead a number of coinciding factors combined with cultural and environmental ones.

As for it not being hereditary, I'd argue that there's no way for us to no that because no objective study exists on it... and I think it'd be impossible for one to be conducted. If it were, then those societies which allow open homosexuality would probably be free of the issue, because homosexuals don't reproduce when paired with their preferred gender.

I personally don't believe it's hereditary, but certainly that there is a biological component.



It is another topic, but the argument is the same. It's a negative argument - in that it says "something doesn't exist because there's no proof for it". And that's just not the case.

I don't know.

[Revert]

Originally Posted by Ilikemyscarf

Variable,
People decide to be gay for different reason. For example, children that grow up with no male role model or a failed one. Or people that were sexually abused. I still don't think it makes it right though.
I would say it's a sexual deviation, instead of a mental illness or a sexual disorder. There has yet to be a scientifically proven biological explanation for homosexuality. There is simply no evidence for it. Plus, children of homosexual parents aren't likely to turn out any more homosexual than a child that's been raised by heterosexual parents. It's not hereditary. As for the question of the existence of God, that's a whole differrent topic. But I've made my views clear from the religious stance.

Some people are just wired a certain way. A sexual preference is the same whether it he opposite sex the same sex or another species, its something I beleive we are born with. As for it being hereditary or genetic? I don't think so not until conclusive studies are done.

Sexual abuse doesn't make you gay.

[Revert]

Originally Posted by Bluestar

yeah, there's enough hate in this world already. I can't hate, it's not in my nature. I either leave or i love

plus my gaydar is atrocious i'd end up hating the postman because he lifted his arm in girly fashion

Hate for the right reason is something justfied by all of Allahs revalations.

[Variable]

Originally Posted by Ilikemyscarf

I don't know.

That makes two of us.

[MossadConspiracy]

i'm not going to have any gay kids, but just one quick note...

theres a tribe in new guinea called something like 'the flute people'. They believe in pederasty and basically their normal practice is that young boys are expected by their culture to begin fellating older boys and mature men and eating semen on a regular basis because their beliefs tell them that semen is essential for the nourishment and growth of boys and their maturity into men. Many people on this message board are going on about how homosexuality is something that occurs naturally, and has always been a part of human culture, and has been accepted as normal in a variety of cultures for many thousands of years. And all of that is correct. But at the same time, most of us would not be so accepting of a man who has an 8 year old boyfriend and feeds him semen every day, even though this is a normal part of their culture and a tradition and heritage that has been passed down to them from centuries of their ancestors, and the practice of pederasty is many millenia old, and so on...

its all relative. you are raised in a culture that accepts and embraces homosexuality so you argue against those who oppose it. you're raised in a culture that considers homosexuality to be an aberration that should be hidden away and never discussed, and which has a very strong religious sanction against the practice, so you oppose it.

ws

[Ilikemyscarf]

Originally Posted by Variable

That makes two of us.

Ah, humble and handsome..you're on a roll my friend.

[Aryan_]

Originally Posted by Bluestar

yeah, there's enough hate in this world already

I don't think there is enough.

[Timbit]

Originally Posted by shadha

Anderson: What if your husband suppresses his passionate desires for homosexual sex and doesn't act upon them?

My husband is the furthest thing from being gay...Allahu Akbar.

However, if I had married a man who suppressed his passionate desires for man love and told me about it, then I would have great respect for him. I wouldn't suddenly stop loving him because of what his personal Jihad is, just as I would expect him to support and love me while I go through my personal Jihad[s].

And you're just a homophobe.


shadha-

I don't think cheating is humiliating or trifling, no matter who your spouse is cheating with. It says more about them than it does about you anyhow... no need to be humiliated or more humiliated if your husband cheats with a man.

And I wouldn't marry somebody like that.
Why marry a gay man? You mean if they told you after marriage?