Why Have Kids?

shadha · #1 (**permalink**) 10-11-2007, 01:57 PM

AsSalamu' Alaykum,

Ever since I was younger, I have always wondered why people who live below the poverty line continue to have kids. I don't get it. You can't offer your child food, clean water, shelter, so on and so forth-- yet you have a child. To me, that is so incredibly selfish. Do they not look at their suffering child and think, "this could have been prevented?" They are purposely putting their child through excruciating pain and for what?

So my question is, why have kids if you can't afford to have one?

Yes many can argue, well one can never be able to afford a kid, blah blah blah-- but here's the difference. If you don't have a job, if you don't have enough food for even yourself, if you don't have clean water/air/environment etc, if you live in a war area, then you CAN'T afford a child.

To complicate matters, they continue to have children and the rest of the world has to come up with ways of making sure those children survive.

I'm sorry, I don't understand it. That's not to say that I will not support organizations that help these families/children etc or that I won't sponsor and orphan-- I just want to understand what the hell they were thinking when they laid down for sex.

EDIT: Come to think of it, this also applies to people who continue to have children while on welfare. What sense does that make?

shadha-

Timbit · #2 (**permalink**) 10-11-2007, 02:12 PM

Not everybody has access to birth control and parenthood isn't always planned.

shadha · #3 (**permalink**) 10-11-2007, 02:14 PM

So, my next question- why have sex?

shadha-

Arabesque · #4 (**permalink**) 10-11-2007, 02:30 PM

Allah (swt) says: "Wealth and children are an ornament of the life of the world." [18:46]

I suppose if that is so, then everybody would want the wealth and the children. The poor might not have the former, but they still get the latter, you see.

Also, Allah (swt) says: "And do not kill your children for fear of poverty; We give them sustenance and yourselves (too); surely to kill them is a great wrong." [17:31]

Now if the poor (and I'm talking strictly Muslim here) have faith in the verse above, they'll think that Allah will maintain their kids for them. So they needn't worry.

I see what you're saying and I kind of understand, but then again, is it fair to say that because they are poor, they can't have kids?

My take on this is that why have kids at all, when there are too many orphans in this world who need a family. I think people should start thinking of the purpose of having kids. What's the difference if they were your own, or if they were somebody else's? They're all the "amanah" of Allah. Besides, you get rewarded greatly if you care for orphans. Just a personal opinion.

Timbit · #5 (**permalink**) 10-11-2007, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadha

So, my next question- why have sex?

shadha-

That's the dumbest question ever. Seriously.

Not like you're going to get pregnant every single time you have sex, especially if you time it right. But of course the rhythm method isn't a reliable form of birth control.

Not everybody has a choice either. Sometimes one of the spouses (usually the female) doesn't want to, but the man does... and she gets pregnant.

Or they think Allah will provide.

Anyway, so you're saying nobody who lives in a developing country should have sex, ever? Instead of saying "Okay, maybe we need to make sure contraceptives are more readily avaliable", you say "Why should the rest of the world have to do anything, if you're going to continue to have sex?"

The rest of the world doesn't have to do a damn thing and in fact, most of the time, it doesn't.

shadha · #6 (**permalink**) 10-11-2007, 02:36 PM

I agree, I would never suggest that one kill their child. I'm not saying that at all, what I am saying is- if you can't afford a child, then why put yourself in the position of having one? I see the point you are making but to me, it's not about what's fair for the parents but what is fair for the child.

It's like adopting a dog or a cat. Why adopt one if you can't afford to take care of it? Will you say, Oh Allah Will Provide? The same thing applies to children- why have one of you can't afford to take care of him?

And yes, raising an orphan is beautiful.

shadha-

shadha · #7 (**permalink**) 10-11-2007, 02:42 PM

Timbit: Not everybody has a choice either. Sometimes one of the spouses (usually the female) doesn't want to, but the man does... and she gets pregnant.

And the fault would be on the man.

Timbit: Instead of saying "Okay, maybe we need to make sure contraceptives are more readily avaliable"

Who is 'we'?

Timbit, as I previously said, if you can't afford to have a child, then you should not have a child. As simply put as that. Of course, not every time one has sex a child is guaranteed, but there is still the risk of having a child from that sex act. So if you can't afford to purchase contraceptives or if you don't have them available for you, and you can't afford a child, then yes, why are you having sex?

I'm really not trying to argue,

, but I'm just really not understanding the point, eh.

shadha-

Caramel_Candy · #8 (**permalink**) 10-11-2007, 02:49 PM

Poor people having lots of kids = free money from the government

shadha · #9 (**permalink**) 10-11-2007, 03:03 PM

Caramel_Candy: Poor people having lots of kids = free money from the government

Reminds me, Timbit, I'm not sure the laws/agencies of Canada but here we have a welfare system, that is supported by the money of tax payers. It's messed up that there are people who are abusing the welfare system, on my dime. I have no problem with my tax money going to support those who need it, but I do have a problem with it going to those who are selfish and irresponsible and abuse it.

shadha-

YOUSUFofSD · #10 (**permalink**) 10-11-2007, 03:06 PM

some will abuse, some will not abuse; that will always be the case. as far as the states i would rather my money be used by families in need, then by the army for wars and such.

I dont know about canada though, do you guys even have a military?

Timbit · #11 (**permalink**) 10-11-2007, 03:18 PM

Shadha, we is people like you who whine all the time about having to pay taxes. You're saying the rest of the world has to come up with solutions to make sure these children who were born into poverty survive. You don't have to do that. Anybody with any sense of compassion would though.

Having kids doesn't equal abusing the welfare system.
Some people have kids and then become poor. Are you going to blame them too?

IbnMardhiyah · #12 (**permalink**) 10-11-2007, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadha

So, my next question- why have sex?

Because there's no TV, or its cold outside.

shadha · #13 (**permalink**) 10-11-2007, 03:36 PM

Timbit: Shadha, we is people like you who whine all the time about having to pay taxes. You're saying the rest of the world has to come up with solutions to make sure these children who were born into poverty survive. You don't have to do that. Anybody with any sense of compassion would though.
Having kids doesn't equal abusing the welfare system.
Some people have kids and then become poor. Are you going to blame them too?

You are totally missing the target.

I already stated that I have no problem paying taxes for welfare for those who DESERVE it. Of course, I would take issue with my tax money going to those who ABUSE the system, those who abuse the system and as a result are stealing money from those who again, DESERVE it.

Again, of course anyone with an ounce of compassion would but why are those people being selfish and irresponsible by having children that they can't afford in the first place. That's the point Timbit. Having children that you can't afford. Instead of sitting there ****ing and making babies, they should be busy looking for ways to better themselves, their situation, and their country.

Did I even indirectly hint that those who have children then become poor are abusing the system? No. There's no need to exaggerate. What I did in fact say was, "this also applies to people who continue to have children while on welfare" Keyword being: continue. How does one live on welfare and continue having children? Please explain that to me.

shadha-

IbnMardhiyah · #14 (**permalink**) 10-11-2007, 03:39 PM

Since when was there ever any explicit or implicit belief or widely-held opinion that people on welfare shouldn't have anymore kids until they're off welfare?

What if one of those kids grows up to not only pull his house outta welfare, but to help out the community and countless others? What if that kid grows up to be someone good for the world?

shadha · #15 (**permalink**) 10-11-2007, 03:45 PM

Ibn: Since when was there ever any explicit or implicit belief or widely-held opinion that people on welfare shouldn't have anymore kids until they're off welfare?

Without welfare, are they able to provide for those children?

Why should the rest of the state foot the bill for that family to continue to have children that they can't provide for?

Ibn: What if one of those kids grows up to not only pull his house outta welfare, but to help out the community and countless others? What if that kid grows up to be someone good for the world?

And what if that kid grows up to be a criminal? What is your point?

shadha-