[shadha]

Bluestar, you refuse to answer my question with anything other than "obviously not you" [and I'm the one who is immature?] because you are aware that by answering my question you will only further prove my point. Now you are more than welcomed to skirt around the issue by making assumptions as to how I was brought up, if that makes you feel better thats fine, but my question is still left unanswered. Though, for the sake of curiosity- why won't you go ahead and answer my question fully? Entertain my supposed immaturity and explain the answer to me.


shadha-

[Bluestar]

umm, just did

[Aryan_]

Should people who can't afford Ferraris be given them for free because they want them? Should people who can't afford swimming pools be given them because they want them?

What exactly is different about that and children? Children are a luxury and you can survive fine without them.

Originally Posted by Bluestar

I want to be poor when i have children, kids get everything they like and more and grow up taking every thing and everyday for granted. That's not the way to bring up children.

I've read some stupid things on islamica, but that gem is in a class of it's own. You must have lived a very sheltered upbringing if you want that.

[shadha]

My fault, that was suppose to be an edit on my previous post.

Anyway, the community? Again, burden on society.


shadha-

[Bluestar]

Originally Posted by Aryan_

What exactly is different about that and children? Children are a luxury and you can survive fine without them.

Not always, sometimes people feel they are incomplete without giving birth. I don't know why, but thats how people feel. Other times, they feel like it's natural to them. God knows why, i'm sure we were just given the womb for adornment,

I've read some stupid things on islamica, but that gem is in a class of it's own. You must have lived a very sheltered upbringing if you want that.

I've always had a poor life, even now. I love being poor, maybe i just don't have the same capitalist values as you

Anyway, the community? Again, burden on society.


shadha-

a burden for people like you. For others, it's support they are willing to give.

[tinkerbell]

Originally Posted by Bluestar

Another example of how you are too immature to discuss a subject like this. My answer has been provided, you just don't acknowledge it because it doesn't coincide with your own views. You are only a child yourself and yet you discuss the emotional and financial battles that people have in their lives so freely as if they are nothing but objective entities on a piece of paper. Who will provide for them, who will offer them shelter and water? It depends on the social circumstance and the decision of the parents themselves and if they knew full well they could not afford it then the community should provide for them. This is exactly what happened in the country i used to live in, in Africa.

Noone had the lack of shame to tell people not to have children, the adults used to say "have children, your children are ours too".

Variable, if you want to link poverty to crime, then you're taking on a huge sociological debate.

ignorance is bliss.

[TrentReznor858]

Maybe in another life
I could find you there
Pulled away before your time
I can’t deal it’s so unfair


And it feels
And it feels like
Heaven’s so far away
And it feels
Yeah it feels like
The world has grown cold
Now that you’ve gone away


Leaving flowers on your grave
Show that I still care
But black roses and hail mary’s
Can’t bring back what’s taken from me
I reach to the sky
And call out your name
And if I could trade
I would


And it feels
And it feels like
Heaven’s so far away
And it stings
Yeah it stings now
The world is so cold
Now that you’ve gone away

[Aryan_]

Originally Posted by Bluestar

Not always, sometimes people feel they are incomplete without giving birth. I don't know why, but thats how people feel. Other times, they feel like it's natural to them. God knows why, i'm sure we were just given the womb for adornment,

Oh...so we should not prevent them from having children because they'd FEEL incomplete without them. Sure, let me go out and hand over my savings to Jordan and her abusive boyfriend Tyson so they can yelp out another litter of pig headed job shy chain smoking scally bastards.

Well I feel just as incomplete without my ferrari and three concubines to go with it. I'm sure Allah didn't give me my superior driving skills for adornment either.

I've always had a poor life, even now. I love being poor, maybe i just don't have the same capitalist values as you

You're poor yet you're living and contributing to the capitalist west - there's still Cuba if you want to live the dream. You got a job (right?), a computer with tinternet and can feed yourself. 'Fraid not comrade, you're just as much a capitalist as me.

[aFallenAngel]

when someone marries me(Inshallah) i want them because i absolutly love babies

[Bluestar]

Originally Posted by Aryan_

Oh...so we should not prevent them from having children because they'd FEEL incomplete without them. Sure, let me go out and hand over my savings to Jordan and her abusive boyfriend Tyson so they can yelp out another litter of pig headed job shy chain smoking scally bastards.

Well I feel just as incomplete without my ferrari and three concubines to go with it. I'm sure Allah didn't give me my superior driving skills for adornment either.

That wasn't a justification for having kids, i have to admit i find it slightly strange but i was pointing out that's how much some people want kids. Some women feel the need to have children and experience the feeling have holding their baby in their arms. You can't compare that to cars and temporary girlfriends.

You're poor yet you're living and contributing to the capitalist west - there's still Cuba if you want to live the dream. You got a job (right?), a computer with tinternet and can feed yourself. 'Fraid not comrade, you're just as much a capitalist as me.

The only similarity between you and me is that we breathe the same air, and no , none of the things you assumed about me are true apart from the fact i have a job, so did Engels. It doesn't pay for much.

[TrentReznor858]

Originally Posted by shadha

Bluestar, you refuse to answer my question with anything other than "obviously not you" [and I'm the one who is immature?] because you are aware that by answering my question you will only further prove my point. Now you are more than welcomed to skirt around the issue by making assumptions as to how I was brought up, if that makes you feel better thats fine, but my question is still left unanswered. Though, for the sake of curiosity- why won't you go ahead and answer my question fully? Entertain my supposed immaturity and explain the answer to me.


shadha-

She can't come out and say "Babies are all poor people live for."

[Aryan_]

Originally Posted by Bluestar

That wasn't a justification for having kids, i have to admit i find it slightly strange but i was pointing out that's how much some people want kids. Some women feel the need to have children and experience the feeling have holding their baby in their arms. You can't compare that to cars and temporary girlfriends

Why not? Having children is not essential, that's a backwards third world mentality.

If Jordan wants to have feel mushy and have a child in her arms then she needs to start working and place herself in a position where she possesses the financial and mental faculties required to bring up children.

What she shouldn't expect is to get knocked up by some scally degenerate, and then jump on the gravy train living for the rest of her inane life on the generosity of others.

The only similarity between you and me is that we breathe the same air, and no , none of the things you assumed about me are true apart from the fact i have a job, so did Engels. It doesn't pay for much.

I bet it pays enough to put you in the richest 10% of the world's population. If it doesn't, get a job that pays better.

http://www.globalrichlist.com/

[Variable]

Originally Posted by Bluestar

Variable, if you want to link poverty to crime, then you're taking on a huge sociological debate.

... I wasn't

[sally]

I must say that some people are jumping to rash conclusions here. On the other hand, some valid points are being conveyed in an indecent fashion.

Let us remember that the people during the time of the Prophet S.A.W and the Sahabah implemented the practice of basic birth control in their lives and it was obviously completely permissable. Now, Islamically also, children are a great blessing and it should be noted that the Prophet S.A.W ALSO emphasized that Muslims should have many children because it increases the Muslim Ummah, etc etc.

Why, then, would the need for birth control arise or even become an issue during the Prophets time? Simply because when times were really tough, Muslims most likely put two and two together and realized that wait, Allah DOES provide for every individual human being, HOWEVER, I SHOULD probably tie my camel and thus, maybe put off having children until things get a little better.

Also, in Islam, a single man is not encouraged to think of getting married until and unless he has some way of supporting his new wife, and future children. We're not saying that he has to have a crapload of money in the bank, or a $100,000/yr job, but common sense dictates that there needs to be some flow of funds in order for a man to even think of a new wife (1st, 2nd, or 3rd) or potential offspring. Now obviously the case is different when a multi million dollar businessman or a man with a steady income who has a couple kids and a wife and is living lavishly and suddenly has something tragic happen to him, ultimately resulting in him and his family ending up on the streets.

But of course there are extremes on every end. Because on the other hand, you have people who have a decent flow of funds and the basic necessities of life who constantly think that they can't afford to have a kid. That's their own business but if you get to know some of these people, you might find their thought process a little strange because they'll say something like, 'oh, we're not thinking of having kids because honestly, there's no way we can afford to send them to a private college 18 years down the line'. God forbid their kid ever has to work a little bit for his lavish lifestyle or $100,000 degree.

Anyway, isn't it true that as it gets closer to Qiyaamah, people will stop looking out for each other and hence, chaos will ensue?