[dreamdeferred]

Apparently some of you took offense to this avatar........It's understandable, no one likes to have a middle finger raised at them. Contrary to appearances though......this isn't an obscene gesture.

It's a symbol of resistance referred to as "Ya Basta"....a Spanish idiom loosely translated as... "Enough is Enough!". This symbol has been popularized (started?) by the Zapatista movement of Mexico. The gentleman in the pic is Subcommandante Marcos...leader of the revolutionary army.

Who are the Zapatistas and why should you care?

In the early 90's Francis Fukuyama proudly proclaimed "The End History".....he argued that human societies have reached a kind of evolutionary apex that proved the broad supremacy of liberal democracy and free market economics (I'm glossing over huge parts of his argument but that was the core of it). Meanwhile in Latin America, governments were busy applying an extreme form of neoliberal capitalism at the behest of the IMF and World Bank......one that was highly detrimental to vast majority of their populations. Indigenous communities especially were hard hit by sweeping reforms to land ownership and overall economic participation. Mexico was no different........the Zapatista movement, largely indigenous, arose to agitate against the prevailing system and secure their rights. This is a horrible introduction but I'm at work and can't put too much time into this.....

If you're interested...take a look at this book review which gives a more insightful background on the movement.

The Zapatistas' Struggle against "Free Trade"

The Zapatistas are inspiring to many of us who have serious concerns about "Free Trade" and globalization especially when seen in the context of actual impact on the Global South.

[Islamic_Women]

I wasn't offended.

[dreamdeferred]

Originally Posted by Islamic_Women

I wasn't offended.

Haha cool

I'm not trying to call out whoever was offended....just wanna clear the air incase anyone else was thinking the same thing.

I don't want to come across as a jerk who points his middle finger at strangers on the internet. lol

[TrentReznor858]

wasnt offended at all, knew what it was, thought it was cool.

[afrakabob]

Originally Posted by dreamdeferred

Who are the Zapatistas and why should you care?

In the early 90's Francis Fukuyama proudly proclaimed "The End History".....he argued that human societies have reached a kind of evolutionary apex that proved the broad supremacy of liberal democracy and free market economics (I'm glossing over huge parts of his argument but that was the core of it).

i read an excerpt from that book and thought it was hilarious.

Originally Posted by dreamdeferred

If you're interested...take a look at this book review which gives a more insightful background on the movement.
The Zapatistas' Struggle against "Free Trade"

i tried to find some of subcomandante marcos' books at my public library, but they didn't have any (big surprise)
it's probably for the best. i'm pretty sure the feds would come after me even faster if that anything with his name on it showed up on my library check-out list.

a pretty good documentary about the zapatistas: "A Place Called Chiapas." you can watch it for free on google video

[wheelworks]

I didn't even notice it

[Variable]

I think Marcos was a pretty cool character (I actually almost had the chance to see him, I missed it by a day...)

Though the whole EZLN movement's become some kind of enormous merchandizing effort, it's an interesting story. If you ever get the chance to see Chiapas, jump on it, it's awesome.

[Swiper6]

we forgive you............................. this time


next time, do not expect such courtesy.

[ShotgunMessiah]

Originally Posted by dreamdeferred

I don't want to come across as a jerk who points his middle finger at strangers on the internet. lol

I do it all the time, I'm an e-badass. But don't do anything to me IRL though, I'll curl up and cry.

[dreamdeferred]

Originally Posted by afrakabob

i read an excerpt from that book and thought it was hilarious.

It's an insanely presumptuos argument that has been roundly criticsized......on the other hand it's been adopted like gospel in some circles.

i tried to find some of subcomandante marcos' books at my public library, but they didn't have any (big surprise)
it's probably for the best. i'm pretty sure the feds would come after me even faster if that anything with his name on it showed up on my library check-out list.

a pretty good documentary about the zapatistas: "A Place Called Chiapas." you can watch it for free on google video

Thanks for the heads up...I'll check the doc out for sure. You know...it's pretty scary that
your joke is 100% true.....taking out books about existing revolutionary movements would probably be flagged by Homeland Security/NSA/FBI. Sad but it's reality.

Originally Posted by Variable

I think Marcos was a pretty cool character (I actually almost had the chance to see him, I missed it by a day...)

Though the whole EZLN movement's become some kind of enormous merchandizing effort, it's an interesting story. If you ever get the chance to see Chiapas, jump on it, it's awesome.

Word....the commercialization of the movement is pretty ironic. It doesn't detract from it's relevance at all IMO. I'm planning a tour of South America for next summer God willing...Chiapas is def on the list. What sort of opportunity did you have to meet Marcos? Was it work related?

Originally Posted by ShotgunMessiah

I do it all the time, I'm an e-badass. But don't do anything to me IRL though, I'll curl up and cry.

lol *high fives Shotgun*

[dreamdeferred]

basically Islamica, the take away message from this thread is;

I'm not a jerk......I'm just really pretentious.

[Swiper6]

Originally Posted by dreamdeferred

basically Islamica, the take away message from this thread is;

I'm not a jerk......I'm just really pretentious.

ahhhh.. now i get it!

[sally]

you should be hung!

jk...im smart. cuz i took history of latin america in college

[Swiper6]

Originally Posted by dreamdeferred

basically Islamica, the take away message from this thread is;

I'm not a jerk......I'm just really pretentious.

ok so we've taken the message away from the thread.

now all that remains is the thread and the completely irrelevant posts that have nothing to do with the original topic.


Let's Begin!

[Swiper6]

my foot feels itchy, but when i scratch it, it gets even itchier later. people tell me to ignore it, but that doesnt help either.