[GOTFIVEONIT]

Indian Muslims are not well served by their leaders

Saturday, 21 July 2007

It may be a coincidence, but both India and Pakistan have started talking in terms of reforming the traditional madrassa system of education. While Pakistan's initiative has understandably followed the tragic Lal Masjid episode, the Indian government's proposed measures are evidently the fallout of pressure from the Hindu communal outfits.

In both countries, the belief that the madrassas have become hotbeds of 'terrorism' is behind the latest moves. And the resistance to these initiatives for reform is also being offered in the two countries by the fundamentalist elements.

In India, the proposed legislation drafted by the National Commission for Minority Education is being opposed by the Jamaat-e-Islami, the Jamiat-ulema-e-Hind, a section of the Deoband school and others.

Of these, the Jamaat, with its links with the Muslim League, is known to be more fanatical than the Jamiat, which has had connections with the Congress from well before independence. However, the fact that both are against bringing the madrassas into the modern world shows the strength of the fundamentalist convictions which guide both, notwithstanding their political differences.

The fact that the case for reforming these religious seminaries has been made for a long time by a wide range of public opinion in India evidently has had no impact on these two organisations. What is more, it isn't only the fear that the madrassas breed terrorists that has influenced popular views. Instead, well-wishers of Muslims both inside and outside the community have started feeling with growing conviction that the traditional system of education given in these schools do not prepare the boys and girls for the exigencies of modern life.

Not surprisingly, the proposed legislation in India has focussed on the introduction of science, technology and computer courses in the curriculum. It is difficult to see what objection the Jamaat-e-Islami and the Jamiat-Uleme-e-Hind can have to these subjects.

Yet the fact that they are against the legislation underlines their medieval world-view, providing yet more confirmation of the perception that organisations such as these, which claim to seek the welfare of Muslims, are in fact inflicting considerable harm on them.

It is possible that the move to bring all the madrassas under a central board is not to the liking of the Jamaat and the Jamiat. They probably believe that the step will be the thin edge of the wedge, which will enable the government to erode the autonomy of these institutions. The Rs.500 crore seed money mentioned in the bill for the reformed system is perhaps seen as a bait.

But it is also undeniable that letting the madrassas continue to lead an isolated existence will mean not only excluding their students from the mainstream but also denying young Muslims an opportunity to compete on equal terms with others for advanced learning and employment. The memorisation of religious texts at the expense of other subjects may have been useful in a bygone age, but not now.

It is unlikely that the majority of Muslims prefer this system. As the Rajinder Sachar committee report on the community points out, only four percent of Muslim children attend the madrassas. This means that an increasing number of Muslims belonging to the middle classes send their children to schools preferred by the other communities.

Evidently, the social barriers between the different groups are slowly breaking down. It may not be too cynical to suggest that it is precisely this elimination of dividing lines that have frightened the orthodox elements in the Muslim community to maintain the status quo where the madrassas are concerned.

The same desire to erect barriers can also been seen in the decision of the All India Muslim Personal Law Board to ask members of the community to solve their problems through the Shariat courts, bypassing the country's legal system.

While personal laws that are special for each community are still prevalent in India mainly in the matter of property rights, any attempt to extend them across the board can only encourage ghettoisation to the detriment of national integrity. Such a divisive fallout will be grist to the mill of the ultra-rightist elements in all the communities, who thrive on inflaming sectarian passions. While the majoritarian groups among the Hindus will press for a uniform civil code in order to erase the distinctiveness of the personal laws, mainly to needle the Muslims, their counterparts in the minority communities will try to erect more walls around themselves via their own civil and criminal codes.

Typically, while organisations like the Jamaat, the Jamiat and the Muslim Personal Law Board are so eager to play a divisive role, they have rarely exerted themselves to eradicate the besetting problems of the community posed by educational backwardness or the prevalence of anti-women bias, evident in the continuance of the triple talaq phenomenon.

There is little doubt, therefore, that the Muslims in India have not been well served by their backward-looking leaders. And the latter have been aided by a quiescent middle class that is reluctant to assert because it fears creating divisions within the community.




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[Arabesque]

But it is also undeniable that letting the madrassas continue to lead an isolated existence will mean not only excluding their students from the mainstream but also denying young Muslims an opportunity to compete on equal terms with others for advanced learning and employment. The memorisation of religious texts at the expense of other subjects may have been useful in a bygone age, but not now.

Yeah, I agree. Why should there be separate institutions to teach religion? Why can't they have Islamic Studies taught in regular schools?

There's nothing wrong with becoming a preacher or a shaykh, full time, but there's no reason to restrict oneself. It's good to know a little about everything else while focusing on religious studies.

But then again, who are we to decide what others should learn? I hated all the useless subjects I learned in school. I never used them, and I never shall. Chemistry? What for? If I'm not going to work in that field, why should I study that? It affected my grades badly. I would have scored higher without it. So if those people want to study religion only, maybe that's what they should. Just like those who go to music schools to study music only.

Best thing is to conduct a survey and to see what they want to learn, not what their parents want them to learn?

[LEGALEAGLE]

I agree with Hamza Yusuf's position.

The state should stay out of schooling. Thats the road to fascism

[GOTFIVEONIT]

Originally Posted by LEGALEAGLE

I agree with Hamza Yusuf's position.

The state should stay out of schooling. Thats the road to fascism

haha then what about public schooling?

[GOTFIVEONIT]

Originally Posted by Arabesque

Yeah, I agree. Why should there be separate institutions to teach religion? Why can't they have Islamic Studies taught in regular schools?

There's nothing wrong with becoming a preacher or a shaykh, full time, but there's no reason to restrict oneself. It's good to know a little about everything else while focusing on religious studies.

But then again, who are we to decide what others should learn? I hated all the useless subjects I learned in school. I never used them, and I never shall. Chemistry? What for? If I'm not going to work in that field, why should I study that? It affected my grades badly. I would have scored higher without it. So if those people want to study religion only, maybe that's what they should. Just like those who go to music schools to study music only.

Best thing is to conduct a survey and to see what they want to learn, not what their parents want them to learn?

i get what you mean, but some of the subjects are taught to give people a full round view of the world at large. i do agree the some secular subjects should be taught to the students, such as math, science, and literature. but the core subjects can be religion. but they should also be exposed to the arts and technology as well. because these are the future mullahs of thier communities. people will be asking them for guidence, they have to have a well rounded view to help these people.

As for teaching religion in schools, in public schools, in secular states, religion is not allowed to be taught.

[Arabesque]

Originally Posted by GOTFIVEONIT

i get what you mean, but some of the subjects are taught to give people a full round view of the world at large. i do agree the some secular subjects should be taught to the students, such as math, science, and literature. but the core subjects can be religion. but they should also be exposed to the arts and technology as well. because these are the future mullahs of thier communities. people will be asking them for guidence, they have to have a well rounded view to help these people.

As for teaching religion in schools, in public schools, in secular states, religion is not allowed to be taught.

I totally agree with you.

I think that's the problem. Muslims might not be able to afford private schools, and when public schools choose not to teach religion, then the best alternative would be a madrassah.

[GOTFIVEONIT]

Originally Posted by Arabesque

I totally agree with you.

I think that's the problem. Muslims might not be able to afford private schools, and when public schools choose not to teach religion, then the best alternative would be a madrassah.

well not just that, public schools, and many private schools dont teach urdu or the urdu script. the only place that many muslim kids can learn it is in the madrasas. i dont know why there is so much propoganda being put out against madrasas. you should see the jewish yeshiva's over here, its like brainwashing.

[Arabesque]

Originally Posted by GOTFIVEONIT

well not just that, public schools, and many private schools dont teach urdu or the urdu script. the only place that many muslim kids can learn it is in the madrasas. i dont know why there is so much propoganda being put out against madrasas. you should see the jewish yeshiva's over here, its like brainwashing.

I'm not against madrassahs. I just think that the largest religious minority in India should be able to live a comfortable life. I don't like reading about poverty and illiteracy within the Muslim community in India. It's disturbing.

Here in Dubai, we have this Indian business group called Varkey Group, who started a chain of schools managed by its GEMS division (Global Education Management Systems). I think they also run schools in India. Anyway, the schools here largely serve the Indian community. The curriculum is follows that of India, but is accredited by the Ministry of Education in the UAE. If Muslim businessmen fellow the example of this group, they could start a chain of schools in India that cater to the Muslim community, and at the same time, receive accreditation from the authorities in India.

I don't have that much money yet, but when I do insha'Allah, I'll do something like that.

[GOTFIVEONIT]

Originally Posted by Arabesque

I'm not against madrassahs. I just think that the largest religious minority in India should be able to live a comfortable life. I don't like reading about poverty and illiteracy within the Muslim community in India. It's disturbing.

Here in Dubai, we have this Indian business group called Varkey Group, who started a chain of schools managed by its GEMS division (Global Education Management Systems). I think they also run schools in India. Anyway, the schools here largely serve the Indian community. The curriculum is follows that of India, but is accredited by the Ministry of Education in the UAE. If Muslim businessmen fellow the example of this group, they could start a chain of schools in India that cater to the Muslim community, and at the same time, receive accreditation from the authorities in India.

I don't have that much money yet, but when I do insha'Allah, I'll do something like that.

i dont understand one thing about the gulf. why are there seperate schools for non-citizens, i.e. the foreign guest workers. here in the u.s. even the illegal mexican kids can attend our public schools free of charge. segregation like that is illegal in this country, and has been since the 1950's and the civil rights marches to de-segregate schools.

[Arabesque]

Originally Posted by GOTFIVEONIT

i dont understand one thing about the gulf. why are there seperate schools for non-citizens, i.e. the foreign guest workers. here in the u.s. even the illegal mexican kids can attend our public schools free of charge. segregation like that is illegal in this country, and has been since the 1950's and the civil rights marches to de-segregate schools.

It's not segregation at all. Non-citizens can attend public schools, but they choose not to. The main reason is that the meduim of instructions in public school is mainly Arabic, except for the daily English language classes. Many Arab residents who cannot afford a private English school send their kids to public schools.

And hey, don't change the subject!

[GOTFIVEONIT]

Originally Posted by Arabesque

It's not segregation at all. Non-citizens can attend public schools, but they choose not to. The main reason is that the meduim of instructions in public school is mainly Arabic, except for the daily English language classes. Many Arab residents who cannot afford a private English school send their kids to public schools.

And hey, don't change the subject!

im not trying to. and i didnt mean earlier specifically that you were bashing madrasah's, of course everyone will agree to the constructive criticisms into thier curriculm. i was just speaking in general especially in the western media, in the way in which they bash madrasahs. i have seen jewish yeshiva's, thier reliigous schools, and its pure brainwashing. thier kids stand outside on the corner and they wear thier little black yamaka's (skull caps) and have dread locks in their hair.

[GOTFIVEONIT]

since your interested, if you want to get an idea about the situation of Indian Muslims, Here is a link on YouTube, to a speech delivered in India's Parliament, by a Muslim politician representing the old city district of Hyderabad.

His speech was interupted when he started calling the hindu fanatics, fascists.

The speech is delivered in English.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NdIVdxIkmp4

Here is what some hindu fanatics had to comment on this video. This is how they view Muslims in India. They say "Go to pakistan". and they wonder why Pakistan was even created in the first place. take a good look at what garbage they write.

saudislavetousa (1 month ago) Marked as spam
GO TO PAKISTAN *****ES,WE INDIANS AGREE WITH "Mr.BUSH",SADDAM NEEDS TO BE ELIMINATED.
LONG LIVE USA,ISRAEL,INDIA.....................
AND DEATH TO SAUDI ARABIA,PAKISTAN,6TH CENTUARY...

gayathrip65 (3 months ago) Marked as spam
You know what people like you should be elimated from this world I wish very soon you will leave this world and this word of mine will come true. watch out. Hindustan is a Hindu Nation you people came as a friends and back stabbed us Hindus and took over the nation it is high time that we should kick you guys out of the nation and out of this world the day will come soon.

bakwas (3 months ago) Marked as spam
we need just and tolerant ruler not mughals or people who enslave. and its not a single man who can change the 1 billion nation .hindus & muslims both need play their vital role to bring back the past glory. if muslim lag behind its loss for them. Sending to hell/heaven is Allah's/Gods right. you sin when you say some person would go to hell. may Allah send all to heaven bcoz hell is a very bad abode