[sixpakistan]

Originally Posted by jinnzaman

I can see an argument, but give me some more information to support your assertions.

here's a beginning:

ABC News: U.S. Prison Population Hits All-Time High

Race: Black males continue to be incarcerated at an extraordinary rate. Black males make up 35.4 percent of the jail and prison population — even though they make up less than 10 percent of the overall U.S population. Four percent of U.S. black males were in jail or prison last year, compared to 1.7 percent of Hispanic males and .7 percent of white males. In other words, black males were locked up at almost six times the rate of their white counterparts

As far as proving that this is a result of deliberate policy, that's not easy and highly questionable.. which is why I said you might not want to delve into that sort of speculation. Still, it could be argued that neglect of existing conditions and policies that create such circumstances is criminal.

[jinnzaman]

Originally Posted by ChotooMotoo

In the United States, there is a definite difference between local, state, and federal government. Taking Pakistan as an example, if a Pakistani policeman got all P'Od and burned down his Hindu neighbors house without a federal mandate to do so, and it was reported in a western newspaper as "Pakistani Government Destroys Hindu Property" I'm pretty sure you would be the first to raise your hand and yell false reporting.

Ethnic cleansing against Indians is well known. There was also an order to exterminate Mormons in Utah. I'm not aware of any military action being taken against Mexicans or any other group you mentioned.

"Ethnic Cleansing" as it's used almost always means violence. If a predominantly Black neighborhood lived in a flood plain, their properties were flooded, and the government subsequently bought their flooded property (causing the people to relocate) that would not be considered Ethnic Cleansing, even though the Black Population was obviously eliminated from their land.

Again, just be careful about your definition.

The problem with your analogies is that its not a reflection of what happened. If a Pakistani police officer burned down his neighbors house and was later punished for it, then obviously, its not ethnic cleansing. However, if he burned down the Hindu guy's house and other law enforcement agencies didn't do anything and the federal government didn't do anything even after this information was brought to light or they engaged in polemics that it was necessary to do so to preserve the racial purity of the country or because it was manifest destiny, then thats ethnic cleansing. Similarly, in many of the instances where people were initiating pogroms against minorities, the government either participated or it sat on its hands and looked the other way.

The problem with your second analogy is that the federal government is providing them compensation for the relocation, thats why its not ethnic cleansing. Moreover, in many of the cases, the people were targeted specifically because of their race or ethnic group and terrorized into leaving and were neither compensated for it and their property was often seized.

The definition of ethnic cleansing doesn't have to include violence per se in order to be ethnic cleansing.

[amina9183]

Originally Posted by jinnzaman

Why do you want to go to law school if you don't mind my asking?

Well, a few reasons:

firstly, i always wanted to do law--it had always been between fashion design and law(im very extreme.) but then when the time came around for college, fashion just won out. Because I got into F.I.T.....and it just seemed to be what I wanted more. Secondly, I have this looong list of things I want to do. I like learning about completely different topics, and I think I am one of those people that will be in school forever. I want to be a muftiya, a lawyer, a fashion designer, and a master pastry chef. This just seems like the perfect time to fit the law part in...I think the alima/ifta course is best put on hold until Im married with kids. And pastry arts seems like something that would also be best after marriage and kids. I feel like I just got a chance to do what I wanted to do before(law), and Ill regret it if I dont, because the other stuff can easily be fit in later on in life, whereas law may be more difficult. Third: I really am feeling the need for some security. A degree in fashion design doesnt make me feel very secure, or that I am fully capable of taking care of myself. Fourth: I need something to occupy my brain, and just keep me busy and take over my life. Law seems like the perfect candidate. Fifth: my ammi will be proud

[jinnzaman]

Originally Posted by amina9183

Well, a few reasons:

firstly, i always wanted to do law--it had always been between fashion design and law(im very extreme.) but then when the time came around for college, fashion just won out. Because I got into F.I.T.....and it just seemed to be what I wanted more. Secondly, I have this looong list of things I want to do. I like learning about completely different topics, and I think I am one of those people that will be in school forever. I want to be a muftiya, a lawyer, a fashion designer, and a master pastry chef. This just seems like the perfect time to fit the law part in...I think the alima/ifta course is best put on hold until Im married with kids. And pastry arts seems like something that would also be best after marriage and kids. I feel like I just got a chance to do what I wanted to do before(law), and Ill regret it if I dont, because the other stuff can easily be fit in later on in life, whereas law may be more difficult. Third: I really am feeling the need for some security. A degree in fashion design doesnt make me feel very secure, or that I am fully capable of taking care of myself. Fourth: I need something to occupy my brain, and just keep me busy and take over my life. Law seems like the perfect candidate. Fifth: my ammi will be proud

Law school's a huge investment (psychologically, emotionally, financially). Just out of curiosity, how do you plan on paying for it (school loans or parents paying for it)?

Well, good luck. If you have any questions about applying to law school, feel free to ask me, Salika, Sumiyia, Dahibarey or any other law students/lawyers.

[ChotooMotoo]

Originally Posted by sixpakistan

As far as proving that this is a result of deliberate policy, that's not easy and highly questionable.. which is why I said you might not want to delve into that sort of speculation. Still, it could be argued that neglect of existing conditions and policies that create such circumstances is criminal.

It's all about definition. You need to define exactly what you mean by ethnic cleansing before you can prove that it happened. If you make the definition too broad, a LOT of things are going to fall under the label of Ethnic Cleansing (including simple redneck descrimination). Make it too narrow, and even the Holocause or the Rwanda won't count. That was the only point I was trying to make. I don't mean to discourage you in any way.

[amina9183]

Originally Posted by jinnzaman

Law school's a huge investment (psychologically, emotionally, financially).

Oddly enough, thats the main attraction in it.

financially...Alhamdulillah that shouldnt be a problem..I have my parents and brothers.

[sally]

this post is solely being made for reps.

[jinnzaman]

Originally Posted by ChotooMotoo

It's all about definition. You need to define exactly what you mean by ethnic cleansing before you can prove that it happened. If you make the definition too broad, a LOT of things are going to fall under the label of Ethnic Cleansing (including simple redneck descrimination). Make it too narrow, and even the Holocause or the Rwanda won't count. That was the only point I was trying to make. I don't mean to discourage you in any way.

Word. I've got some working definitions of ethnic cleansing, primarily from Ilan Pappe's "The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine."

[dreamdeferred]

There's too much going on in this thread...I don't even know where to start.

Originally Posted by jinnzaman

Well, another argument I'm working on is how capitalism has been somewhat responsible for massive climate change and how the corporate system makes the structural transformation of industrialized economies to accommodate climate change extremely difficult, if not impossible.

This is actually a well studied position. Proponents of this argument often hail from socialist quarters but there have been some "steady state" economists who have offered this critique as well.

[jinnzaman]

Originally Posted by dreamdeferred

There's too much going on in this thread...I don't even know where to start.



This is actually a well studied position. Proponents of this argument often hail from socialist quarters but there have been some "steady state" economists who have offered this critique as well.

Hook me up with sources bro!

[dreamdeferred]

Originally Posted by jinnzaman

Hook me up with sources bro!

Absolutely brotha,

I'll post some links later on tonight insha'allah.

[dreamdeferred]

Critique from the left
(I use the term "critique here loosely, the books and papers are much more substantive)

Foreign Policy In Focus | Can Capitalism Survive Climate Change?

Z Space - Timothy*Rodriguez

Environment, Capitalism and Socialism | DEMOCRATIC SOCIALIST PERSPECTIVE

Pamphlets & Reports : Climate and Capitalism

Robert Newman: It's capitalism or a habitable planet - you can't have both | Environment | The Guardian

International Socialism: “On the menu or at the table”: corporations and climate change

Eco-Socialism - Savage Capitalism - the Ecosocialist Alternative

http://cca.movingpages.org/resources/analysis.pdf

Books

Powell's Books - The Enemy of Nature: The End of Capitalism or the End of the World? by

Book Examines Clash of Capitalism and the Environment

Amazon.ca: Deep Economy: The Wealth of Communities and the Durable Future: Bill McKibben: Books

Library - Online Library

Papers

Climate Change and Global Capitalism: From Threat to Opportunity

Why does market capitalism fail to deliver a sustainable environment and greater equality of incomes? -- Greenhalgh 29 (6): 1091 -- Cambridge Journal of Economics
(dated but relevant)

socialistregister.com/socialistregister.com/files/ecolbhweh19Oct06.doc

EditorialEnvironmental Education and Education for Sustainable Development - Policy Futures in Education Volume 3 Number 3 (2005)

Steady State Economics

PositionOnEG

Amazon.ca: The Environmental Consequences of Growth: Steady-State Economics as an Alternative to Ecological Decline: Douglas Booth: Books

Amazon.ca: Steady-State Economics: Second Edition With New Essays: Herman E. Daly: Books
(Dated)

The Oil Drum | Herman Daly: Towards A Steady-State Economy



These are kind of random, I don't have access to my files right now but I'll pass you some more solid links sometime this weekend iA.

[ShotgunMessiah]

America comitted ethnic cleansing by hiring Latinos as maids.

Am I doing this right?

[jinnzaman]

There's also the eugenics movement in America which eventually inspired the Nazis and a lot of people were forcibly sterilized in several states (a good portion were Native Americans or African Americans).