[MossadConspiracy]

Originally Posted by Jamroll

The Chinese and Americans won't fight each other head on. Superpowers rarely do. They'll fight proxy wars. I would think that, present trends standing, in the next 20-30 years we'll see an increase in proxy wars between the two countries.

but why? China is America's top trading partner. And as far as I know, the reverse is true as well.

[MossadConspiracy]

Originally Posted by Arabesque

I wish it was that simple. I'd much rather be the latter.

why are you so anti-american??

[Arabesque]

Originally Posted by MossadConspiracy

why are you so anti-american??

Why is the government so anti-Muslim?

[Jamroll]

Originally Posted by MossadConspiracy

but why? China is America's top trading partner. And as far as I know, the reverse is true as well.

Oh they'll continue to trade with one another. Even sworn enemies like America and Iran continue to trade with each other. But on the strategic side of things, they will test each other and duel it out, using proxies. They've already been testing the waters on a very small scale with countries like North Korea and Taiwan.

[MossadConspiracy]

Originally Posted by Arabesque

Why is the government so anti-Muslim?

i dont know if it is, i'd say its more like some cliques within the government

but the USA and its policies go much deeper than the Bush administration. Actually i'd say that Americans have saved alot more muslims than they've killed. Probably a couple of orders of magnitude more

[Aryan_]

Originally Posted by MossadConspiracy

but why? China is America's top trading partner. And as far as I know, the reverse is true as well.

France and Germany were each others biggest trading partners before both world wars.

The only situation I can see the spams taking on the karate kids is if the latter decide to invade Taiwan. America is obliged by law to protect Taiwan from invasion. Proxy is how things will pan out over the next few decades.

[IbnMardhiyah]

Originally Posted by MossadConspiracy

By the way, the USA has a massive military edge over China. The Chinese can overcome it, I mean its conceivable that any country could given enough time, even Mexico. But at the moment, and for at least the next few decades, American military dominance will be pretty total, even if the Chinese economy eclipses the American one. So in a military controntation, it would be smarter to side with the Americans and let Israel have the Chinese (not that either is possible or likely)

China has deep-water berthing rights to the new warm-water port they're building at Gawadar, Pakistan. They're financing the lion's share of that port in return for those rights, and that port will give them nearly unrestricted access to the warm Gulf waters. Through diplomacy and business, they got what the USSR failed to get 30 years ago.

And if you read the Economist and what they've been saying recently, they've noted that its a high probability that in less than 60 years, we'll see an America that's looking inward more and more as India and China expand, so much so that a time may come when America will seek implicit permission from China & co. before going on ill-fated missions like Iraq.

[MossadConspiracy]

Originally Posted by Aryan_

The only situation I can see the spams taking on the karate kids is if the latter decide to invade Taiwan. America is obliged by law to protect Taiwan from invasion. Proxy is how things will pan out over the next few decades.

why though? China doesnt benefit and neither does the USA.

Also, what proxies? China has a very timid foreign policy.

Maybe things will change in some decades, but I dont understand why everyone is jumping to that conclusion

[Aryan_]

Originally Posted by Arabesque

Why is the government so anti-Muslim?

You consider America anti-muslim but not India or China? You need a reality check. If America treated muslims like India or China does most of you Arabs would be reduced to piles of carbon.

[Arabesque]

Originally Posted by MossadConspiracy

i dont know if it is, i'd say its more like some cliques within the government

but the USA and its policies go much deeper than the Bush administration. Actually i'd say that Americans have saved alot more muslims than they've killed. Probably a couple of orders of magnitude more

I don't know, MC. You have the right to say or feel what you want, and so do I. What you say won't change how I feel about the US government. Yes, I hate the government, and I thank Allah a million times that I have the freedom to say that without fearing any sort of discrimination or punishment. And I thank Allah more for not having to choose where my loyalty lies.

You think the Americans saved a lot more Muslims than they killed? Ok, if you think so. You can ignore the proxy wars they fight, and the oppressive governments they support, and the toxic weapons the used here and there ... you can ignore all this if you wish, simply because you haven't experienced it first-hand, and alhamdulillah you haven't. And I sincerely pray that you don't. I pray that no Muslim ever experiences such barbarianism.

All the American governments were awful, but I assure you, it's only after Clinton that any possibility to reconcile was crossed out completely. In fact, the majority of Arabs and Muslims were hardly aware of any sort of animosity or "clash of civilisation" until after Clinton had left the White House.

I hope the USA is reduced to just another country on the map, and it will insha'Allah. You want to be a world police, prepare to take a fatal bullet.

[MossadConspiracy]

Originally Posted by IbnMardhiyah

China has deep-water berthing rights to the new warm-water port they're building at Gawadar, Pakistan. They're financing the lion's share of that port in return for those rights, and that port will give them nearly unrestricted access to the warm Gulf waters. Through diplomacy and business, they got what the USSR failed to get 30 years ago.

Fair enough, but that doesnt change the fact that the USA has a huge edge over them in all aspects of military power, most importantly in missile capabilities, nuclear warheads, anti-missile technology, submarines, and all other nuclear platforms. A nuclear war is extremely unlikely, but as things stand now the USA would mop the floor with China and basically have their entire arsenal and population at their mercy from the first couple of hours. And the most likely arena for a conventional war is in the oceans around Taiwan, where the US has another huge edge.

Maybe in some time that will change, it would be interesting if it did, but it takes a while to build up technology and forces.

Originally Posted by IbnMardhiyah

And if you read the Economist and what they've been saying recently, they've noted that its a high probability that in less than 60 years, we'll see an America that's looking inward more and more as India and China expand, so much so that a time may come when America will seek implicit permission from China & co. before going on ill-fated missions like Iraq.

That could be right, it also could be wrong. 60 years is a long time, I would be wary of being too confident in those predictions even if they come from the Economist. But thats an interesting viewpoint, and it wouldnt surprise me at all if things go that way (if I live to see it). It seems like we're headed in that direction, anyway

[Jamroll]

Originally Posted by MossadConspiracy

why though? China doesnt benefit and neither does the USA.

Also, what proxies? China has a very timid foreign policy.

Maybe things will change in some decades, but I dont understand why everyone is jumping to that conclusion

China's meteoric economic growth has meant a real need for fuel and other natural resources to keep it goin. The hunt is on for the remaining natural gas and oil fields. So, for example, while the U.S. has been faffing about in the Middle East, China has gone straight to Africa and wrapped up vast swathes of the continent as their personal suppliers. China doesn't bother with human-rights requirements in its trading partners. It's a straight-up cash transaction as far as they're concerned. The U.S. is not happy with this state of affairs and as the global supplies get tighter the tensions between the two powers is more than likely to increase.

[IbnMardhiyah]

Originally Posted by MossadConspiracy

Fair enough, but that doesnt change the fact that the USA has a huge edge over them in all aspects of military power, most importantly in missile capabilities, nuclear warheads, anti-missile technology, submarines, and all other nuclear platforms.

Yes, and I'm not disputing that point. I doubt China and America will ever come to serious blows with each other.

Although as the whole world can plainly see, having the technological advantage over an opposing force hasn't really helped America much at all in the past few years.

[IbnMardhiyah]

Originally Posted by Jamroll

CThe U.S. is not happy with this state of affairs and as the global supplies get tighter the tensions between the two powers is more than likely to increase.

That's true, but only to a certain extent. The US is concerned with getting cheap oil for as long as it can, but it still has massive reserves in its own backyard - Alberta has the second largest amount -approx. 180 bb - of proven reserves in the world, after Saudi Arabia, which has about 230 bb..

And that 180 bb is only what's economically extractable at this point in time, which is equal to about 10 percent. Alberta's actual estimated oil reserves are around 1.7 to 2.3 trillion barrels. Alberta also has about 90 trillion cubic feet of proven natural gas, with about another 500 tcf estimated. And although China's made several deals with Albertan energy producers so far, Alberta's still interested in selling to the US far more.

The US still has a lot to go on, even if all Mideastern oil dried up completely.