[Bluestar]

Originally Posted by Variable

That's not really what I got from her posts.

I thought the original stance was that all young people should undertake military service?

This makes me think of a story I came across quite some time ago, about a dad who was against his son going into the military. He was a very wealthy man, and reeled at the thought of his son considering such a lowly 'career'. He was elitist, and also a self described racist.

He couldn't stop his son however, and at the last minute decided to go to his grad parade. He was struck by the sense of community, the dignity that everyone carried themselves with - black or white, poor or rich all wearing the same uniform. He gave a pretty idealized description of it all, reminiscent of Malcolm X's description of Hajj.

In any case, I'm not gonna disagree with the assertion that the US military is a broken institution right now, I've heard enough from the guys on the inside to disagree with that. But there are definitely positive elements that capture what I think Shadha was aiming at in her original post.

Yeah there were positive elements such as the point that young people shouldn't live in a consumerist, supermarket ridden, dog eat dog society without actually knowing the bare basics of life

[Variable]

Originally Posted by Bluestar

I thought the original stance was that all young people should undertake military service?

Yes, but what I didn't get was that she was generalizing that "it's extremely helpful to youth" in an unqualified way.

[ShotgunMessiah]

It's really more the basic training than the actual Army service that would be beneficial to American youth. I mean, we all already sign up for Selective Service in the first place. This wouldn't be that much different; spending four months after high school and before college getting yelled at to get rid of that "I can do nothing and graduate life with a C"attitude public school instilled into your brain.

[Revert]

I hope all the American Males on Islamica signed up for Selective Service..if not i'm telling Uncle Sam...

I had to Sign up when I got my Green Card...

[ShotgunMessiah]

Originally Posted by Revert

I hope all the American Males on Islamica signed up for Selective Service..if not i'm telling Uncle Sam...

I had to Sign up when I got my Green Card...

They know if you don't, and you can face incarceration if you haven't.

[Revert]

Originally Posted by ShotgunMessiah

They know if you don't, and you can face incarceration if you haven't.

I know I read it today..i perused the Army site seeing what happens if they draft you and it led me to the SS site.

[ChotooMotoo]

Originally Posted by Revert

I know I read it today..i perused the Army site seeing what happens if they draft you and it led me to the SS site.

yes, but if you are over 26 when you get your green card, you are exempt from duty. They won't let you register. In that case all you have to do is contact the SS and get a letter stating that you are exempt.

[Hanbali]

It is haram to serve in the kaafir army of taghoot. Whoever does that risks his status in the Hereafter. It could be kufr and grounds for apostasy.

If you get drafted, then you have the right to be a conscientious objector. Read:

Selective Service System: Fast Facts


CONSCIENTIOUS OBJECTION AND ALTERNATIVE SERVICE

A conscientious objector is one who is opposed to serving in the armed forces and/or bearing arms on the grounds of moral or religious principles.

HOW TO APPLY

In general, once a man gets a notice that he has been found qualified for military service, he has the opportunity to make a claim for classification as a conscientious objector (CO). A registrant making a claim for Conscientious Objection is required to appear before his local board to explain his beliefs.

He may provide written documentation or include personal appearances by people he knows who can attest to his claims. His written statement might explain:

• how he arrived at his beliefs; and
• the influence his beliefs have had on how he lives his life.

The local board will decide whether to grant or deny a CO classification based on the evidence a registrant has presented.

A man may appeal a Local Board's decision to a Selective Service District Appeal Board. If the Appeal Board also denies his claim, but the vote is not unanimous, he may further appeal the decision to the National Appeal Board. See also Classifications.

WHO QUALIFIES?


Beliefs which qualify a registrant for CO status may be religious in nature, but don't have to be. Beliefs may be moral or ethical; however, a man's reasons for not wanting to participate in a war must not be based on politics, expediency, or self-interest. In general, the man's lifestyle prior to making his claim must reflect his current claims.

SERVICE AS A CONSCIENTIOUS OBJECTOR

Two types of service are available to conscientious objectors, and the type assigned is determined by the individual's specific beliefs. The person who is opposed to any form of military service will be assigned to Alternative Service - described below. The person whose beliefs allow him to serve in the military but in a noncombatant capacity will serve in the Armed Forces but will not be assigned training or duties that include using weapons.

ALTERNATIVE SERVICE

Conscientious Objectors opposed to serving in the military will be placed in the Selective Service Alternative Service Program. This program attempts to match COs with local employers. Many types of jobs are available, however the job must be deemed to make a meaningful contribution to the maintenance of the national health, safety, and interest. Examples of Alternative Service are jobs in:

• conservation
• caring for the very young or very old
• education
• health care

Length of service in the program will equal the amount of time a man would have served in the military, usually 24 months.

[ShotgunMessiah]

It's great that there's a board that reviews that and decides that you are not qualified for it... I mean, decides whether or not you're qualified

[Hanbali]

Originally Posted by ShotgunMessiah

It's great that there's a board that reviews that and decides that you are not qualified for it... I mean, decides whether or not you're qualified

I'm sure that if you explain how you sympathize with the enemy more than you do with the American soldiers, then I'm sure they wouldn't really want you to join their army. In any case, that is what Canada is for.

[ChotooMotoo]

Going to Canada to get out of the draft isn't a very realistic option.

Originally Posted by ShotgunMessiah

It's great that there's a board that reviews that and decides that you are not qualified for it... I mean, decides whether or not you're qualified

Well, at least you can try. If you do end up getting drafted, my step dad says your best chance is to be the start of basic training because then you will make yourself so valuable they won't send you to the front lines. He got drafted in the Vietnam days, did incredibly well in basic training, and spent the whole war in Korea and the Italian Riviera.

[Hanbali]

Originally Posted by ChotooMotoo

Well, at least you can try. If you do end up getting drafted, my step dad says your best chance is to be the start of basic training because then you will make yourself so valuable they won't send you to the front lines. He got drafted in the Vietnam days, did incredibly well in basic training, and spent the whole war in Korea and the Italian Riviera.

If you get drafted, then you should go to jail instead. Better to sacrifice a few days in this life as opposed to sacrificing the Hereafter. And how many great awliyah were locked up behind bars?

[Revert]

Originally Posted by ChotooMotoo

yes, but if you are over 26 when you get your green card, you are exempt from duty. They won't let you register. In that case all you have to do is contact the SS and get a letter stating that you are exempt.

I was 25..so i had no choice..

Originally Posted by Hanbali

It is haram to serve in the kaafir army of taghoot. Whoever does that risks his status in the Hereafter. It could be kufr and grounds for apostasy.

If you get drafted, then you have the right to be a conscientious objector. Read:

Yeah I saw that too. I was discussing it with my wife, she reckons its a good idea to go to the board with a few verses of the Quran and Hadith to support your points. Knowing us we would go with all the 20 pages fatwas we could find on the subject.

[Revert]

Originally Posted by Hanbali

If you get drafted, then you should go to jail instead. Better to sacrifice a few days in this life as opposed to sacrificing the Hereafter. And how many great awliyah were locked up behind bars?

I'd rather not go to an American prison..theya re too obbsessed with prison rape.