[ShotgunMessiah]

Originally Posted by Bluestar

I think they were more critical of the ethos that brings people to do that, strangely similar (in terms of lack of understanding) to the ethos that it's valid to blow up innocent civilians.

Then perhaps they should stop with the sweeping generalizations and rampant America hate. Nobody wants innocent people to die, their words make it seem like that's what we want and make themselves look ignorant.

[Hanbali]

Originally Posted by Revert

Would they? How do you exlplain Hilters association with the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem and the numerous Muslim Panzer divisions?

I have no idea what you mean by the Muslim panzer divisions.

In regards to the Grand Mufti, Islamaphobes always bring this up, so we should not fall into their traps.

The stupid Islamaphobes use this as an argument to show how the "evil Muslims" supported the Axis.

Yet, MORE Muslims supported the ALLIED powers. This is a fact that DESTROYS the argument of the idiotic Islamaphobes.

[Variable]

Originally Posted by Bluestar

I don't think that's fair. Generalising that the American army is completely evil or generalising that it is extremely helpful to the growth of young adults is the same. There is no difference, i'm not saying it's inaccurate but that you should respect the argument if you want your own view to be respected.

That's not really what I got from her posts.

Anyway, the American army is known for being one of the worst in the world. I certainly wouldn't want my child to be a walking talking testosterone, wife-beating junky. Yes, generalisation and probably unlikely, but a lot of American soldiers are like that and i don't favour the possibility of my own turning out that way. Similar to how i wouldn't want them to be narrow-minded extremists who see the world in two colours only. Favouring Bruinrabs option of an alternative, I'd send them to Africa, i know what it's like because i spent a huge chunk of my life there and show them how to kill an animal before you eat it, how to plough the land and reap benefits in the form of food and how to tend to animals. Giving children an awareness of life is different to stripping away all sensitivity to it.

This makes me think of a story I came across quite some time ago, about a dad who was against his son going into the military. He was a very wealthy man, and reeled at the thought of his son considering such a lowly 'career'. He was elitist, and also a self described racist.

He couldn't stop his son however, and at the last minute decided to go to his grad parade. He was struck by the sense of community, the dignity that everyone carried themselves with - black or white, poor or rich all wearing the same uniform. He gave a pretty idealized description of it all, reminiscent of Malcolm X's description of Hajj.

In any case, I'm not gonna disagree with the assertion that the US military is a broken institution right now, I've heard enough from the guys on the inside to disagree with that. But there are definitely positive elements that capture what I think Shadha was aiming at in her original post.

[Revert]

Originally Posted by Hanbali

I have no idea what you mean by the Muslim panzer divisions.

In regards to the Grand Mufti, Islamaphobes always bring this up, so we should not fall into their traps.

The stupid Islamaphobes use this as an argument to show how the "evil Muslims" supported the Axis.

Yet, MORE Muslims supported the ALLIED powers. This is a fact that DESTROYS the argument of the idiotic Islamaphobes.

Serbian Muslims supported the Nazis and joined up...theres stuff all over the net about it bro. There wer entire brigades of Nazi soldiers that were recruited by the Grand Mufti...

It think it shows that we as Muslims aren't one dimensional and we are jsut like everyone else.

[Revert]

Originally Posted by sixpakistan

What Muslim Panzer divisions?

Islam is a Semitic religion. Hitler made allies of convenience, but he didn't like Islam or Muslims.

Do some research you'll see what I mean bro.

My wifes family are from the Balkans and they ahve hundreds of stories of their fathers going to fight thier brothers that joined the Nazis.

Hitler wasn't one dimensional, he hated Jews but if the price was right he would work with them. From what I cna gather they DNA tested the Grand Mufti to prove he was White.

[Hanbali]

Originally Posted by Revert

Serbian Muslims

Serbian Muslims...??????

Aren't most Serbs Christians?

[Variable]

Originally Posted by Revert

Serbian Muslims supported the Nazis and joined up...theres stuff all over the net about it bro. There wer entire brigades of Nazi soldiers that were recruited by the Grand Mufti...

It think it shows that we as Muslims aren't one dimensional and we are jsut like everyone else.

There were definitely Muslims (and members of many groups) who joined the SS, but I'm pretty sure there were no divisions, especially panzer divisions made up of Muslims.

[Revert]

Originally Posted by Hanbali

Serbian Muslims...??????

Aren't most Serbs Christians?

My Bad it was Bosnians not Serbs...

The 13th Handschar division..My wifes Grandfather fought against them he was a Partizan

[Revert]

Originally Posted by Variable

There were definitely Muslims (and members of many groups) who joined the SS, but I'm pretty sure there were no divisions, especially panzer divisions made up of Muslims.

YOu should talk too people and try to understand Yugoslav culture back then.

They may not have been religious Muslims but they identified as such. I know there was at least one Brigade made up entirely of Yugoslavian Muslims.

I saw it on this Turkish documentary..i also saw one on the HIstory channel..i'm trying to find info out now..

[Variable]

Originally Posted by Revert

YOu should talk too people and try to understand Yugoslav culture back then.

They may not have been religious Muslims but they identified as such. I know there was at least one Brigade made up entirely of Yugoslavian Muslims.

I saw it on this Turkish documentary..i also saw one on the HIstory channel..i'm trying to find info out now..

I was more taking issue with the idea that there were numerous Muslim panzer divisions.

[Revert]

Originally Posted by Variable

I was more taking issue with the idea that there were numerous Muslim panzer divisions.

I can think of one by name the 23rd Waffen Mountain Division of the SS Kama
most of them were rmerged into larger divisions by '44

EDIT: I think i'm getting my terms mixed up.

Panzers were the tanks right? I meant were infantry divisions of Yugoslav Muslims..my bad

[riad19]

i am flat footed. so i cant be recruited by the military. bwahahaahaha

[Revert]

Originally Posted by riad19

i am flat footed. so i cant be recruited by the military. bwahahaahaha

Awesome.

[sally]

Originally Posted by riad19

i am flat footed. so i cant be recruited by the military. bwahahaahaha

i dont get this.