[ChotooMotoo]

Originally Posted by LEGALEAGLE

Hmm I'm not sure what you're trying to say here.

I'm stating the obvious. It is socially conservative, much more than any other part of Paksitan. To question that is silly.

[Jamroll]

We don't fully know all the details of this Lal Masjid incident, but based on what we know, it seems that the government and the military were responsible for the killings.

I don't understand this "burkha babe" argument. Unless I'm mistaken, it just sounds like an uber-secularist espousing deorgatory comments against anyone they perceive to be overtly practising Muslims. Grow up.

[Abu_Hind]

Originally Posted by ChotooMotoo

How come these women from the conservative NWFP were allowed to go to a Madrassah in Islamabad? WOuldn't their families want to keep them home? Wouldn't it be better, if the really were so conservative, to keep them close to home and be sure they are not exposed to such vices as prostitution etc? Why are these families entrusting their daughters to these mullahs? Are there not lady Madrassas closer to home that would be better? It's not like they are learning critical life skills at these schools. Also, some of these girls were quite old, why are they even in school at that age? School will not help them get a job, it will not help them get a husband, or help them with their housework. These girls would have been better to stay home. There is something else going on here, becuase these girls were certainly not as conservative as they make themselves out to be.

Does this even deserve a sensible reply? NO. Disagreeing with the actions of Lal Masjid students is one thing, but then persistently continuing with 'ad-hominem' attacks. Attacking their honor, their dedication, their attire, the fact that they chose to study Islam? Why? Obviously you are a freakin' idiots, like a lot of others here.

You have a problem with burka.

You have a problem with madaaris.

You have a problem with learning Islam.

Really, you need to think twice about spewing your nonsense. It is clear your annoyance and hatred has blinded your rational faculties.

It is obvious also from the prepostrous conclusion you try to make that they are not 'conservative' because they attend a madrassah? LOL. I mean when you people can't think of anything else you stoop low to ridiculous claims. Way to go.

Originally Posted by ChotooMotoo

You are missing some critical part about the culture in NWFP. This is a society where if women are allowed to go to school at all, education stops around age 16, becuase after that they are supposed to be preparing for marriage. HOw do you prepare for marriage? By learning how to cook, clean, simple medicine, and learning household management skills. This is no small task. In the United States there is a whole 4 year University degree to teach these skills, called Home and Family Consumer Sciences

Why are they denied education? Because their parents are afraid of them being corrupted, and there is a strong feeling that since a womans place is in the home, why does the family, who are already impoverished, need to send their daughters to school. Also, schools expose them to different things, and there is a strong feeling that an educated girls is a "liberal" girl, and education will cause her to do all kinds of things. Better to keep them home and teach them at home. There are madrassas locally, so if their daughters are to go to school, they should send their daughters to the local school. YOu can also hire a local person to teach her the deen, and she won't have to leave her home at all. THey shouldn't send their daughter all the way to Islamabad in the trust of some strange man. Islamabad is a relatively sinful city. WHy would you want to expose your daughter to that? Women in NWFP live a very restricted protected sheltered life, and that is true no matter if you are highly educated and live in Peshawar, or if you live in a village. I don't know if you've ever been there, or known anyone from there, but the atmosphere is not conducive to women in public places.

In reading the reports about this situation... there were parents who were begging their children to come out, especially their daughters. It was reported that their daughters refused. Since when does Islam teach us to disobey our parents, especially when our parents want something that is good for us? Is that what they were teaching in this Madrassah?

I'm not being sarcastic. Subhanallah, you criticizing me and saying I'm being sarcastic when I am not. I am trying to point out some very valid things that troubled me about this whole affair. My husband is from NWFP, his sisters were not allowed to go out of their city to study medicine. HOw come parents that are more conservative, to the point that their daughters only go to Madrassah, are allowed to go to Islamabad when there are plenty of local options? It's a valid question. It is a conservative society. I hate to break it to you, but that's the truth.

When did learning the deen become something Useless? Need I say more that you are an idiot?

Btw, you need to accept one basic fact of life; you don't know everything!

I'll bet you on money (figuratively), the person who replied to you is in much better position of telling what NWFP culture is like. Oh and miss-i-know-it-all-about-everything have you ever been to NWFP? It's just too convenient to make shii* up sitting in your cosy little bedroom isn't it?

[am8957]

Originally Posted by Warmheart4u2007

I am an honest man. So when when it is right I would say right and if it is left , you should not expect me to call it left. The criminals from the lal masjid acted as what khawarij in the early days of Islam. The disgraced Islam the world over and represented a bad picture of muslim umma. This thread represent my hat towards them. Let us see some interesting pictures and some interesting comments.

I following post to other threads but no reply or refutation. Is there any logical grounds for supporting them. If not then why some people are supporting them. I challange all the people who support them to defend them are make any justifications for them. There is no way. We should accept that these people donot deserve any sympathy at all.


Those people were criminals and they broke the country laws many time including

1. kidnapping innocent women and keeping them in their custody (Is this Islam)
Aunty Shamim who was kidnapped later on said in her interview "If this Islam then I want to leave Islam".

2. They captured by force a children library ( A Government one!) (Is this Islam)

3. They raided a massage center and kidnapped chinese persons.. (Is this Islam)
kidnapping foreigners! Can anyone who is sane, defend these criminals. Now there is something fishy all about this. Why only chinese citizens are targeted.
Is this a conspiracy to disturb our relations with China supposidly the cosest Pakistan friend today.

4. They arrested Government Personnels . Can you believe that.

5. When the securities agencies warned them to handover themselves to law, they begane a war with the government ,used weapons and killed many persons.

5. Kharijia Abdulaziz and Khariji Abdur Rashid many times openly threatened to carryout suicide attacks (that prove their connections with the suicide bombers)

I am just worried that Government had arrested around 1600 peoples from there and almost all of them have been released. I praise the Pakistani Government for such act of releasing all the criminals , some more such acts of kindness and we would surely have a Taliban Regime in Pakistan in the near future.I once again reproduce my post levelling charges against the criminals of lal masjid and jamia hifsa. So far I have not got a single sane reply or refutation. Is there no educated person who supports the criminals of lal masjid in a sane and logical way. The broke many laws. You would have provide strong justifications for them in order to prove them innocent angels.

For me the biggest shock of my life was the shameless activites of burka babes from jamia hifsa. They made a real show before all the world. It would be interesting how anyone would defend their activities. Can anyone defend their activities in a sane and just manner. I am just tired of the posts of illeterate and naive persons.

Disgusting!

[Warmheart4u2007]

The religion is a business in Pakistan now. Let us see what is happening in the name of religion in Pakistan. killing, looting, raping etc in the name of religion.
Allah-o-Akbar!

The ironic footnote to Gujranwala’s piety is that among the latest wave of Pakistanis running away from Pakistan — and returned after capture from Oman, Sri Lanka and Turkey — the largest number are from Gujranwala

We know that the parents who want to force their daughters to marry men the daughters don’t like use the Islamic law of Hudood to get them into trouble if they marry of their own choice. We know that most so-called honour-killings are done in the name of Islam, the murderer sprouting a beard and taking shelter behind a religious party. Unfortunately most dacoits who enter our homes and subject us to physical torture — even death — now sport flowing beards. Many terrorists have been known to join the mammoth congregations of the religious organisations to escape arrest by state agencies. The latest trend is serial killing. You assume that whatever Islam rejects you have the right to remove with your own hands. In many countries serial killing to cleanse society of its ills has been attempted.

According to ‘Jang’ (6 November 2003), serial killer of two dancing girls of Gujranwala, Maulvi Muhammad Sarwar would go scot-free because witnesses who had earlier deposed against him had all recanted. He was now only wanted in one case of injuring a dancing girl called Musarrat after an attempt to murder her. Moved by religious passion, Maulvi Sarwar went around catching dancing girls outside cinema halls, theatres and hotels and shot them to death. He shot Sajida alias Dabbi outside a hotel with his pistol but now the witnesses had recanted owing to Sarwar’s priestly status. He had also murdered Razia Bilqis and in that case too the witness had recanted because of the city’s new moral drive. According to ‘Nawa-e-Waqt’ he will now face two cases in Lahore on the same charges.

. NothingAccording to ‘Jang’ (8 November 2003), nine people accused of killing a Shia doctor in Lahore, Dr Muhammad Ali Naqvi, were finally let off at the sessions in Lahore because the witnesses to murder did not come forward. The accused were all from the banned Sipah Sahaba militia. Out of the nine, three (Maulana Azam Tariq, Saifullah, Tahir Kamboh) were themselves murdered. The remaining six were allowed to walk. The case was ‘filed’.


According to ‘Jang’ (6 November 2003), Muhammad Shahid was caught by Race Course Lahore police for stealing cable TV boosters and selling them. When caught Shahid said he was doing it on the basis of religion because at home his daughter had run away from home after watching cable TV. He said he stole the cable TV boosters then broke them and threw them in the canal.



According to daily ‘Pakistan’ (6 November 2003) a Chichawatni ‘panchayat’ ruling over the gang-rape of a small girl decided that the guilty men shall do ‘tabligh’ for four months while the father of the raped girl will not step out of the village. The ‘panchayat’ then got the father to sign a ‘sulahnama’ (truce) between the two parties on the basis of which the police let off the rapists. ‘Jang’ reported later that when the district officer reached Chichawatni the rapists along with the ‘panchayat’ ran away and could not be found.

[Abu_Hind]

Are you bitter about something Mr. Garam dil?

[hershel_krustowski]

Originally Posted by iliketofish

What do you do when corruption pervades every aspect of the government, from the heads of state down to the local police?

Well they CERTAINLY SHOULDN'T turn to the even more corrupt heads of violent/self righteous religious organizations, including corrupt regional religious leaders, corrupt masjid imams and people who call themselves "scholars."

[Skinwalker]

Originally Posted by Abu_Hind

Does this even deserve a sensible reply? NO. Disagreeing with the actions of Lal Masjid students is one thing, but then persistently continuing with 'ad-hominem' attacks. Attacking their honor, their dedication, their attire, the fact that they chose to study Islam? Why? Obviously you are a freakin' idiots, like a lot of others here.

You have a problem with burka.

You have a problem with madaaris.

You have a problem with learning Islam.

Really, you need to think twice about spewing your nonsense. It is clear your annoyance and hatred has blinded your rational faculties.

It is obvious also from the prepostrous conclusion you try to make that they are not 'conservative' because they attend a madrassah? LOL. I mean when you people can't think of anything else you stoop low to ridiculous claims. Way to go.




When did learning the deen become something Useless? Need I say more that you are an idiot?

Btw, you need to accept one basic fact of life; you don't know everything!

I'll bet you on money (figuratively), the person who replied to you is in much better position of telling what NWFP culture is like. Oh and miss-i-know-it-all-about-everything have you ever been to NWFP? It's just too convenient to make shii* up sitting in your cosy little bedroom isn't it?

Now wait a minute, I don't think that insulting a sister by calling her an idiot is a worthy or honorable thing to do. We should respect women and their opinions even if we differ and not stoop to name calling. The art of chivalry is not dead . ChotooMotoo raises some valuable questions that deserve a more dignified and respectable answer. Bullying just doesn't cut it.

[ChotooMotoo]

Originally Posted by Skinwalker

Now wait a minute, I don't think that insulting a sister by calling her an idiot is a worthy or honorable thing to do. We should respect women and their opinions even if we differ and not stoop to name calling. The art of chivalry is not dead . ChotooMotoo raises some valuable questions that deserve a more dignified and respectable answer. Bullying just doesn't cut it.

Thank you very much. If I had been a man, and said what I said, Abu Hind would not have replied to me in such a mean spirited self-righteous way. However, I am not a man, I am a woman. Abu Hind has shown time and time again that he does not value the ideas of women. He didn't even bother to read what I wrote, rather he made implications that did not exist, and attacked me based on what he THOUGHT I wrote or what he THINKS I meant to write, not the actual wordage used. To him, any woman who raises her voice is far to liberal for her own good, and should be locked up in a guilded cage forever.

[Abu_Hind]

Originally Posted by Skinwalker

Now wait a minute, I don't think that insulting a sister by calling her an idiot is a worthy or honorable thing to do. We should respect women and their opinions even if we differ and not stoop to name calling. The art of chivalry is not dead . ChotooMotoo raises some valuable questions that deserve a more dignified and respectable answer. Bullying just doesn't cut it.

Please do reply to her valuable querries in my stead, thank you.

Originally Posted by ChotooMotoo

Abu Hind has shown time and time again that he does not value the ideas of women.

Lol, are you sure? But really isn't it too easy for women like you to play victim by simply reminding us you are a 'woman', hence, immune from criticism. Utter nonsense.

[Skinwalker]

Originally Posted by Abu_Hind

Please do reply to her valuable querries in my stead, thank you.



Lol, are you sure? But really isn't it too easy for women like you to play victim by simply reminding us you are a 'woman', hence, immune from criticism. Utter nonsense.

I think criticism is one thing, and preferrably constructive, but personal attacks are quite another.

[Skinwalker]

Originally Posted by ChotooMotoo

Thank you very much. If I had been a man, and said what I said, Abu Hind would not have replied to me in such a mean spirited self-righteous way. However, I am not a man, I am a woman. Abu Hind has shown time and time again that he does not value the ideas of women. He didn't even bother to read what I wrote, rather he made implications that did not exist, and attacked me based on what he THOUGHT I wrote or what he THINKS I meant to write, not the actual wordage used. To him, any woman who raises her voice is far to liberal for her own good, and should be locked up in a guilded cage forever.

I have a deep admiration for women, after all, where would we be without them? I really must start that Great Women thread up again.
I think both of you have strong viewpoints on this issue, and it is interesting to read them both, but some restraint is a good thing.

[IbnAbdullah]

wow, the 'kuffar' don't bark when their sisters run a brothel, but when burka clad muminaat storm the brothels, the 'kuffar' with muslim names bark at them.

[IbnAbdullah]

Aunty Prostitute of the Munafiqeen authors a book

Aunty Shamim’s book to open Pandora’s box

Umar Cheema

ISLAMABAD: Aunty Shamim, the alleged owner of a brothel in Islamabad, has put at stake the future of many “honourable” MPs who fear there would be a string of divorces in case she publishes a book carrying the names of her clients.

The gravity of the situation can be gauged from the fact that the treasury parliamentarians have discussed the issue with Prime Minister Shaukat Aziz. National Assembly Speaker Chaudhry Amir Hussain was also present when the matter was discussed at the residence of Nasrullah Khan Dareshak, following a dinner reception the other day.

A ruling MP from Sargodha said the publication of the book could trigger a large number of divorces with majority of the lawmakers being separated from their wives. He fears that Aunty Shamim is planning to author a book which would be published by the Oxford University Press. The book would be about her clientele and majority of them, what he fears, are MNAs, senior Army officers and judges.

“Mr prime minister, there would be at least 200-300 divorces if Aunty Shamim’s book gets published,” he said. Before making this disclosure, he sought the permission of the National Assembly speaker, saying he wanted to speak on a call attention notice. He also requested the female MPs to leave the place, saying there would be a bit “vulgar discussion” which, propriety demands, should not take place in their presence.

A female journalist-turned-lawmaker and spinster from a smaller province, refused to leave the place, not knowing exactly the contents of the “agenda”. So the discussion took place in the presence of the female MPs.

The said treasury lawmakers noted with concern that the fear of being exposed looms large over the Parliament Lodges that houses the rich clientele of Aunty Shamim. “Our one colleague may be spared who is not among the clients,” the treasury members said, while mentioning the name of a lawmaker. But that does not mean he is not a “colourful” person.

The Sargodah-based MP said this while making observation about the said MP, who has chances of being spared by Aunty Shamim. The Sargodha-based MP said the said MP was also a regular customer of a brothel, but that is relatively cheaper and one night costs him Rs 2,500 because he uses relatively cheaper “stuff”. But the Sargodha-based MP made it clear that he himself was not involved in this business. He, however, said his colleagues shared their reservations and see trouble ahead in case of publication of the book.

As the discussion by the honourable MPs was progressing, the prime minister enquired about the whereabouts of Aunty Shamim. “Do you know where Aunty Shamim is right now,” he asked his treasury colleagues who turned their heads towards each other, as if they did not know.

In an attempt to involve Chaudhry Shujaat Hussain in the discussion on the matter of “serious” concern, the prime minister said ladies would feel very comfortable and safe in the company of Shujaat. The ruling party leader got the point and raised his hand for seeking permission from Speaker Chaudhry Amir Hussain, who was presiding over the proceedings.

As the permission was granted, Shujaat sought clarification from the prime minister as to what exactly he meant? “There are two interpretations of your words. What do you mean?” Shujaat asked the prime minister, who he gave a smile instead of a reply.

When this correspondent contacted another MP who also attended the dinner for comments, he said there was no truth in the contents of the proposed book. Such attempts are being made by those who are against democracy and are out to defame members of parliament. He added that once the book is published “we will take the legal course against the author and defend ourselves”.

Aunty Shamim’s book to open Pandora’s box