[Haramoobobi]

Look their perception of religion is along with race.

Kinda like with Hindus--some of them will go so far as to say most Pakistanis are Hindus because of their ancestors.

Just because we know such things as original sin, chaste systems, and being born into a religion (Jewishness refers to culture--not just religion) is contradictory and silly that's their view, bas.

And anyways if you refuse to say Jew or Israeli--how will you refer to them? Hebrew? Tis a language. You could call them devils even (heard that before) "and in the end it doesn't even matter" what matters is how they view and classify themselves--semantics--as I explained before.

Since I find myself repeating myself. I think I have explained my view enough and will leave it be.

Thank you for your time and consideration (inshAllah)

Assalaamalaykumwarathmatullahbaraktuhu.

[Salahadeen]

As-Salam Alaykum dear sister.

Originally Posted by Haramoobobi

Look their perception of religion is along with race.

Kinda like with Hindus--some of them will go so far as to say most Pakistanis are Hindus because of their ancestors.

I have yet to hear an Indian ever claim that Muslims are Hindus. In fact, historically their chaste system classifies Muslims as worse than prostitutes, for the very reason that they were not Hindus. I really think you'd need to back this statement up, because I have never ever seen an Indian think of Muslims as Hindus.

Yes, IndoPak Muslims are sometimes called Hindustanis, but that is completely different than being called a Hindu. Hindustan was the name of the country. Judaism is not the name of Israel.

And anyways if you refuse to say Jew or Israeli--how will you refer to them?

Sister, I don't refuse to call them Israeli.

I just don't think they are the original Israelites. A big difference.

Nationality-wise they are Israeli, but they are not ethnically Israeli, but rather Russian, Iranian, African, European, etc, from wherever they come from before they invaded, occupied, and raped Palestine.

Your nationality is American. That is your nationality. If I asked you what your ethnicity was, would you say American? No, you would say from where your parents were from. Likewise, the Israelis are new to the land, and they don't belong there, and their ethnicity differs from their nationality.

Hebrew? Tis a language.

No, sister, it is also the name of a people. Please refer to our favorite source of all time:

Hebrews - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You could call them devils even (heard that before) "and in the end it doesn't even matter" what matters is how they view and classify themselves--semantics--as I explained before.

There are people who call themselves citizens of the Third Reich, but do you think that is what it reads on their passport? No, it reads Germany or wherever else they come from. It obviously does not matter how one views oneself.

Thank you for your time and consideration (inshAllah)

Thank you for your input as well. May Allah unite our hearts upon the Siratul Mustaqeem, no matter our petty differences.

Forgive me if I said anything offensive, sister

[Haramoobobi]

Originally Posted by Salahadeen

As-Salam Alaykum dear sister.



I have yet to hear an Indian ever claim that Muslims are Hindus. In fact, historically their chaste system classifies Muslims as worse than prostitutes, for the very reason that they were not Hindus. I really think you'd need to back this statement up, because I have never ever seen an Indian think of Muslims as Hindus.

Assalamalakyumwarathmatullahbaraktuhu Ya a7key,

InshAllah from a fruitful objective, I'll see if I can explain some of your questions and concerns. You would probably know more about Hindus then I, however, I had reached that conclusion based off of an encounter with a Hindu. I had simply attempted to make a point that as far as my understanding goes, you are born a Hindu--I was trying to draw up a correlation with the fact that you are born a Jew.

Originally Posted by Salahadeen

Yes, IndoPak Muslims are sometimes called Hindustanis, but that is completely different than being called a Hindu. Hindustan was the name of the country. Judaism is not the name of Israel.

Sister, I don't refuse to call them Israeli.

I just don't think they are the original Israelites. A big difference.

Many instances that's the case. Nothing new there. Nowadays people marry a Jew and try to convert, but they'll never really be considered wholesomely Jewish, but their kids will. (This is the case with a cousin and several friends of mine).

Originally Posted by Salahadeen

Nationality-wise they are Israeli, but they are not ethnically Israeli, but rather Russian, Iranian, African, European, etc, from wherever they come from before they invaded, occupied, and raped Palestine.

Your nationality is American. That is your nationality. If I asked you what your ethnicity was, would you say American? No, you would say from where your parents were from. Likewise, the Israelis are new to the land, and they don't belong there, and their ethnicity differs from their nationality.

Um, I don't agree. Here's a couple of reason's why: have you been to Palestine? Have you seen Palestinians? MashAllah, quite a rainbow of colors--from the darkest of complexions to the whitest of eyelashes; Palestinians themselves are very mixed. Part of my family that is Palestinian have red hair and green eyes because we're descended from the Europeans that came over from the crusades.
Palestine, historically has been in constant flux.
However, aside from that "they don't belong there"--haha, I think that's a juvenile statement. Sorry. You start questioning people's belongings and how far will you go? To even where Palestinians are disowned because their ancestor had a war and took this person's land and this person's land? To Adam (as)?
Since brother you live in America. Are you willing to give your home and property if a Native American told you, you were on his land?
Maybe mashAllah, you would, but I can tell you many wouldn't.

OK, let's go back, let's just say "they don't belong" just like whites/blacks/hispanics don't belong in the west originally--if you were to spend 1000 years or more figuring out what land belongs to who--does it even matter? I'll tell you what my mother tells me "Life's not fair".
Whatever the case, pointing fingers does nothing, Palestinians and Israelis are there and they aren't going to leave. We need to stop pointing fingers--grow up and deal with realities. Not moan about the past. We need to do something about the present now and help our Palestinians sisters and brothers about the fitnah they have to deal with. We're not helping them by bemoaning the past.

Originally Posted by Salahadeen

No, sister, it is also the name of a people. Please refer to our favorite source of all time:

Hebrews - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ochay, let's use our favorite resource:

Hebrews (or Heberites, Eberites, Hebreians "Habiru" or "Habiri"; Hebrew: עברים or עבריים, Standard ʿIvrim, ʿIvriyyim Tiberian ʿIḇrîm, ʿIḇriyyîm; meaning "descendants of biblical Patriarch Eber" or Hebrew עברי (ʿIḇrî) "traverse or pass over" (referring to the Ibri people, known in the Middle East for their place of origin relative to the major culture of the time. They were called Ibri meaning the people from over on the other side of the Jordan river)[1], were people who lived in Canaan, an area encompassing Israel, both banks of the Jordan River (The West Bank and Jordan), Sinai, Lebanon, and the coastal portions of Syria. Traditionally they are also known as the ancestors of the Israelites. The modern Hebrews are, infact, the Jews.

I would assume from your source that the Jews doesn't only encompass the people who follow Judaism but also the descendants of the Ibri. I don't know. Let's read this paragraph a couple of times out loud to see if this is a really outlandish statement. I do have such tendencies, silly me. This what I have to say:

Originally Posted by Haramoobobi

ahem

Hebrew is a language.


You might see "Hebrews" in the Bible because Christians don't have the inclination to call the people with Esa (as) as Jews, esp since they converted to "Christianity". And they didn't even speak Hebrew, they spoke Aramaic. So even that archaic word is misused.

If you can find some proof otherwise, I'm open to it. However, ask any Jew, and they'll tell you it's a language. It's like being called "Arabic". No one calls them self a Hebrew/Arabic

History

See also: History of ancient Israel and Judah

There is some disagreement as to both the history and legacy of the Hebrew people. Biblically, the Hebrews were the ancestors, or simply an alias, of the Israelites. Among historical scholars however, here is some disagreement as the real relationship between the the Hebrews and Israelites. Achaeological and geneological evidence however clearly demonstrates that today's Jews are descendents of the ancient Hebrews from the Levant.[citation needed]

So the modern Hebrews according to this article are the Jews--and the Hebrews are somehow related to the Israelites--who are now called Jews then. Fascinating. Please note the word "Biblically" again. "Ancient" (archaic) "Hebrews" a Biblical name. Look at my quote above. At the time they didn't even speak Hebrew. I really am so stubborn in thinking that word is improperly used, aren't I?

Language

These areas were politically Phoenicia and of the Philistines in Canaan when they first arrived in the area (this statement is matter of debate: some archaeologists believe that the Israelites simply arose as a subculture within Canaanite society). The Hebrews lived within this region in the 2nd millennium BCE and spoke a Canaanite dialect, which played a role in the Hebrew languages, the local Canaanite culture. The extent of the distinction between the culture of the Canaanites and the Hebrews is a matter of great debate, touching as it does on strong religious sensibilities. They were also known as the Israelites and Judeans.

Religious sensibilities?!?! Mix with identity? HOW ODD. I wonder whyyyyy....

This article also seems to say that the modern Jews are Hebrews/Israelites/Judeans.

Meanwhile, I request you go up to the next Jew and since you seem so intent on calling them a Hebrew you should also try Israelite/Judean and please do let me know what happens and how that works for you.

Originally Posted by Salahadeen

There are people who call themselves citizens of the Third Reich, but do you think that is what it reads on their passport? No, it reads Germany or wherever else they come from. It obviously does not matter how one views oneself.

Yes, perhaps it doesn't matter how we view ourselves.

Originally Posted by Salahadeen

Thank you for your input as well. May Allah unite our hearts upon the Siratul Mustaqeem, no matter our petty differences.

Forgive me if I said anything offensive, sister

Ameen. Wa ana, forgive me if I offended you while trying to point my point across.

Assalaamalykumwarathmatullahbaraktuhu.

[GOTFIVEONIT]

when they say your ancestors were hindus, they were talking about faith, not race. in the same manner that ancestor's the arabs were once pagans, many indians and pakistani's ancestors were also too pagans. of course many are also mixed with at least one ancestor of foreign origin too.

also, indians and pakistanis are divided along two seperate races believe it or not. you have those who are descendants of indo-european extract who are more concentrated in the north of india and pak. and then you have the south indians, the dravidians, who are descendent of more african extract.

and regardless of what jews may say about themselves, dna doesnt lie and tells a different story altogether. no european jew has any semetic blood in them at all. no jew living in brookyln has virtually any semetic blood in them at all. they are all descedants of european converts to judaism.

and arabian jews have been around for a pretty long time. they are arab by race, but jewish by religion. there's no such thing as a jewish race. its just a religion in the end.