[Ugur]

There is now a closure case against AK Party in the highest turkish court because of this attempt to end this ban. the chief prosecutor says ak party has become a focal point of activities against secularism. His major argument is the attempt of the party to end the ban. These idiot secularists are trying to drive turkey into chaos.

[Aryan_]

Originally Posted by Revert

Ataturk was a Muslim?

He was an alcoholic..and his love of raki was well known.

Alcoholics can't be Muslim? No muslim is without sin.

He also saved a Muslim nation. If it wasn't for him half of Turkey (including Istanbul) would have been Greek again.

Originally Posted by Macaca

there's no muslim country with more prositutes than in turkey.

You're forgetting Bosnia/Albania

[freedomlover]

Originally Posted by Macaca

he was a HORRIBLE human being-how do you even know he believed in Allah?
He has made terrible blasphemous statements about Islam-he was not a Muslim. May Allah destroy him.
Turkey was where we had the caliphate for so long-go to Turkey today, there's no muslim country with more prositutes than in turkey.

He's already dead for one, and its not for us to say who is muslim and who is not.
As for the prostitution, Turkey is not a "muslim" country, its secular.
The people who criticise Turkey the most seem to be bitter arabs who can't get over the ottoman years LOL.

[bravotwozero]

Ataturk was a Donmeh Jew who regarded the Shariah and Islam with derision.

See also Radio Islam: When Kemal Ataturk Recited Shema Yisrael - article from Jewish Newspaper Forward

[MuslimahDaTurkish]

u know what people ,,it is funny,anytime when a thread about turkish government comes up, people start posting about ataturk- whether muslim or not
so what if he was, or what if he was not?does it matter today
do u think ur kings and rulers are muslims? helloooo get a life


and about that article bro, it doesnt prove anything come on. i think u dont know about the rumours that jews killed ataturk. so what

[Revert]

Originally Posted by MuslimahDaTurkish

u know what people ,,it is funny,anytime when a thread about turkish government comes up, people start posting about ataturk- whether muslim or not
so what if he was, or what if he was not?does it matter today
do u think ur kings and rulers are muslims? helloooo get a life


and about that article bro, it doesnt prove anything come on. i think u dont know about the rumours that jews killed ataturk. so what

No offense but you get super defensive when anyone has genuine criticism for ataturk.

Originally Posted by _Aryan

Alcoholics can't be Muslim? No muslim is without sin.

He also saved a Muslim nation. If it wasn't for him half of Turkey (including Istanbul) would have been Greek again.

True as that may be, I wouldn't follow a Muslim who was an Alcoholic. Alcoholism is a weakness that can be overcome.

Modern Day Turkey is far from a Muslim nation.

[MuslimahDaTurkish]

Originally Posted by Revert

No offense but you get super defensive when anyone has genuine criticism for ataturk. .

yeah u got it ouch
i was ataturk in my previous life

im just against claiming people to be kafir and i will be

[ShahRukh]

Originally Posted by Revert

No offense but you get super defensive when anyone has genuine criticism for ataturk.

Thats not true at all...I've never seen her (or any religious/sane Turk) defending Ataturk.

Shes seems to be sick and tired of people discussing whether ataturk was muslim or jew or an alien for that matter.

The man is dead. He is history. Lets move on to discussing something more valuable.

[Ugur]

Well said bro ShahRukh.

And some misconceptions to correct:

1. Ataturk did not secularize Turkey on his own nor was he the real starter of the process. Toward the end of the Ottoman times, the Ottoman government let Euroepeans educate some of the top brains of Turkey. The government and the sultans felt obliged to let in European education because of the huge material success of that continent. Therefore, It was these Europan teachers who brainwashed many in the Turkish intelligentsia and started the process of secularization in the 19th century. 19th century European positivism poisoned the Turkish intelligentsia.

2. Ataturk did not save Turkey on his own. He did a good job during the war of independence like many others, but he was no saviour god. He was only one of the several most important generals who successfully fought the Greeks who were just the spawns of their British and French overlords.

Also remember that the real savers of Turkey were the millions of young Turkish Muslims who were killed in the war of independence (1919-1922) rather than a few generals!

Ataturk was then made the major general. Then the Turkish war of independence ended in success. Ataturk became the president of the new state. Then he and a few friends of his purged all the other generals and important men of the war of independence, got rid of all opposition from within Turkey and officially pretended to be the only saviours of our country. Militarily, they really did a good job in the war of independence but they were only a small part of the struggle, not all of it as they pretended to be.

3. As far as I know, Ataturk's "revolution" was much less bloody and much more peaceful than its European analogues. His regime did execute some pious Muslims (and communists etc) for their opposition to the radical and revolutionary policies of the time but apparently not as many as you seem to think. And it was a revolution that brought full secularism to Turkey thereby terribly weakening the influence of Islam here, and secularism is a thing that is evil enough to make him too bad a man in the eyes of Muslims. But he was much more benevolent than most European dictators. He was no Lenin, no Hitler, no Mussolini and of course no Stalin. Who knows, maybe Turks are incapable of producing men as terrible as the men that Europeans are able to produce.

[Ugur]

Besides, Ataturk may or may not be a donme/crypto-Jew in origin. The real point is that he and his friends were brainwashed by 19th century positivism and irreligious positivism was probably his real belief rather than judaism or sabatayism.

It is annoying how some brothers have lots of love and respect for the jews in their own western countries but hate Kemal Ataturk because of the allegation that he was of some sort of a jewish origin.

[Ugur]

Damn why am I spending all this time giving random people not-so-necessary information in utter seriousness and not studying?

[Revert]

Originally Posted by ShahRukh

Thats not true at all...I've never seen her (or any religious/sane Turk) defending Ataturk.

Shes seems to be sick and tired of people discussing whether ataturk was muslim or jew or an alien for that matter.

The man is dead. He is history. Lets move on to discussing something more valuable.

Fair do's bro

[MossadConspiracy]

many turks tend to get really defensive about ataturk... doesnt matter how religious they are, how much they hate secularism how much they themselves rag on ataturk. They never let anybody who isnt turkish (or turkish enough) hate on Ataturk. I mean he is their dad after all

i'd say most instead of many but i havent sampled enough to make that claim

The same goes for the issue of Kurd-killing

[LEGALEAGLE]

Originally Posted by MuslimahDaTurkish

yeah u got it ouch
i was ataturk in my previous life

im just against claiming people to be kafir and i will be

let it go sis....what do *you* care what jerks think ?

[ShahRukh]

Originally Posted by MossadConspiracy

many turks tend to get really defensive about ataturk... doesnt matter how religious they are, how much they hate secularism how much they themselves rag on ataturk. They never let anybody who isnt turkish (or turkish enough) hate on Ataturk. I mean he is their dad after all

i'd say most instead of many but i havent sampled enough to make that claim

The same goes for the issue of Kurd-killing

Thats because Turks are more familiar with their own history than non-Turks are like us. Ataturk is a part of modern Turkish history regardless of his religious status and contributions and wrongdoings. So it makes perfect sense for them to defend their own history from outsiders with lack of knowledge and sensitivity towards the issue.

For ex, any random person that talks smack about Muhammad Ali Jinnah and call him non-muslim just because of his secular lifestyle and beliefs or any other founder of Pakistan...you think ordinary Pakis wouldn't get defensive over that?

Try calling Abraham Lincoln a fascist pig and you'd see what kind of reaction you'd get from ordinary Americans.