[Revert]

Originally Posted by MuslimahDaTurkish

Ataturk was a muslim (Allahu aalim for the other doings) and he didnt ban hijab tho. The ban came after him.
You cant call him kaffir at that point.

Ataturk was a Muslim?

He was an alcoholic..and his love of raki was well known.

[MuslimahDaTurkish]

Originally Posted by Revert

Ataturk was a Muslim?

He was an alcoholic..and his love of raki was well known.

a muslim is always a muslim as long as he believes in Allah and the Prophet pbuh
practising is a different topic

[MossadConspiracy]

Originally Posted by Revert

Ataturk was a Muslim?

He was an alcoholic..and his love of raki was well known.

salam

people always focus on the bad. i cant judge what was in the guy's heart, but even though he was insane and did alot of bad things (which are well known), ataturk and his revolution are the reason that Turkey is not a third world country today. The country was on the path to oblivion and the "khalifa" was a powerless puppet controlled by imperialist countries, Turkey today would probably look just like Azerbaijan or Armenia or some other dump in the region

ws

[Macaca]

Originally Posted by MuslimahDaTurkish

Ataturk was a muslim (Allahu aalim for the other doings) and he didnt ban hijab tho. The ban came after him.
You cant call him kaffir at that point.

he was a HORRIBLE human being-how do you even know he believed in Allah?
He has made terrible blasphemous statements about Islam-he was not a Muslim. May Allah destroy him.
Turkey was where we had the caliphate for so long-go to Turkey today, there's no muslim country with more prositutes than in turkey.

[MuslimahDaTurkish]

Thats not the topic of this thread now. Stop cursing at people,you are a muslim. Only Allah knows the hearts,do u claim the opposite?

[Revert]

Originally Posted by MossadConspiracy

salam

people always focus on the bad. i cant judge what was in the guy's heart, but even though he was insane and did alot of bad things (which are well known), ataturk and his revolution are the reason that Turkey is not a third world country today. The country was on the path to oblivion and the "khalifa" was a powerless puppet controlled by imperialist countries, Turkey today would probably look just like Azerbaijan or Armenia or some other dump in the region

ws

True as that may be my friend. I had never read one peice of evidence to suggest Ataturk was a Muslim, hence my comment.

Banning certain practices and having the Qu'an translated in to Turkish are not declarations of faith. However if you and MDT have some writings somewhere that suggest otherwise then I'd love to read them inshaAllah.

[MuslimahDaTurkish]

Turkish lawmakers approved constitutional amendments to lift the ban on headscarf at universities. In a final vote, lawmakers voted 411-103 to approve two amendments.
Headscarf free in universities - 09 / 02 / 2008 15:49

Turkish lawmakers approved on Saturday constitutional amendments to lift the ban on headscarf at universities.

In a final vote, lawmakers voted 411-103 to approve two amendments.

The first amendment (to article 10 of the Constitution) will insert the statement "...and in benefitting from all public services" in the last sentence of the article 10 of the Constitution "equality before the law."

Under this amendment, last sentence of article 10 says "state organs and administrative authorities shall act in compliance with the principle of equality before the law in all their proceedings and in benefitting from all public services."

The second amendment (on article 42 of the Constitution on "Right and Duty of Training and Education") adds the paragraph "no one can be deprived of his/her right to higher education for reasons not openly mentioned by laws. The limits of the use of this right will be determined by law."

[MoonStar]

awesome. It was pretty pathetic that you can wear a scarf in the West but couldn't in Turkey's unis. Can girls start wearing it now or will there be appeals?

[Bluestar]

Apparently there are loads of people protesting against the lifting of the ban. So i'd imagine it's going to be a while until it's an accepted part of uni life. I remember when a turkish girl in my lecture used to give me dirty looks, it's disturbing how much they're taught to hate religion

As for all the cursing and hissy fitting on Ataturk, such an easy display of anger shows little self control.

[Revert]

Originally Posted by Bluestar

Apparently there are loads of people protesting against the lifting of the ban. So i'd imagine it's going to be a while until it's an accepted part of uni life. I remember when a turkish girl in my lecture used to give me dirty looks, it's disturbing how much they're taught to hate religion

As for all the cursing and hissy fitting on Ataturk, such an easy display of anger shows little self control.

I htink its a great thing that they are in the process of lifting the ban.

As for the Ataturk thing, I think there was only one person cursing him. If I was contstrued as cursing and whatnot then I apologise, i personally have no love for the mans ideals or personal habits, i also have not read anything to suggest he was a muslim. However I will acknowledge the good he did in feeding the starving of Turkey(see Mossads post).

Ataturk and his successors are responsible for the state of religion in Turkey today.

[Bluestar]

i cannot remember you're cursing him. I don't like his values or actions either and yes, the lifting of the ban is definately a good thing.

[GOTFIVEONIT]

Originally Posted by MuslimahDaTurkish

a muslim is always a muslim as long as he believes in Allah and the Prophet pbuh
practising is a different topic

that's true, just because someone's politics is secular, doesnt mean that they are not a Muslim.

what people have to understand, is that mustafa kemal (attaturk/"father of the turks") is regarded as a national hero and founding father of her nation's modern-day republic.

it's easy for us as outsiders to criticize him, but imagine growing up in a school system where you are taught this, in the same way most of you are taught about george washington, or muhammad ali jinnah, or mohandas (mahatma/ 'father of the nation") k. gandhi.

while many people are angry about him destroying the caliphate, a valid excuse, it was in the end a monarchy. and that isnt what the caliphate was meant to be - unless of course your probably a shia, which do believe that the office is supposed to be inherited by the family and/or decendants of the prophet muhammad. (that's not to denegrate them, thats simply a stated fact on shia beliefs).

another thing many turks of mustafa kemal's time were tired of ruling an empire and believed that turkey should have pulled out of non-turkish lands instead of trying to rule over them and maintaining an empire. and much of that is a result of the events of world war 1, which the caliphate had an alliance with the german's and other's.

and turkey was not the only country which resulted in revolution as a result of world war 1, the same events occured in russia when the czar was overthrown by Vladimir Lennin and the creation of the soviet union, which of course only lasted as a country and union for only 70 years.

[GOTFIVEONIT]

and while i do applaud the removal of the ban on hijab in public universities, and let's hope that this removal of the ban extends to france's public schools as well, i think every school should now have a dept, office or dean that deals with complaints by female students who are forced to wear the hijab, when they dont want to.

to borrow a phrase from the pro-choice advocates in the united states, its a girl's choice.

and if there are girl's who dont want to wear it, it shouldnt be forced on them by anyone, even if its members of thier own families. and if complaint's come in, the dean should deal with the family of the girl in question on a personal level, such as calling them into their office, or paying a visit to thier home. and this is a huge reason why you see so many people protesting the removal of the ban on the streets of turkey.

[LEGALEAGLE]

The removal of the ban has to do with the government being given a greenlight by the US to start taking action against Turkish nationalists.

There was an attempted coup in Turkey a few weeks ago however most of the generals involved have now been rounded up.

[ChotooMotoo]

I think it's a very good thing. As for the secular state being destroyed by a piece of cloth, that's just silly.