[shsh]

How Illinois flu vaccine vanished in Pakistan -- chicagotribune.com

[MossadConspiracy]

how unfortunate. this reminds me of the situation that happened a couple of years ago with polio vaccines in northern nigeria. innocent people are harmed over politics

ws

[GOTFIVEONIT]

he is a serb, what should we expect. i actually met our home state's governer years ago at mcc when he was a lowly state senator running for congress. no one knew he was a serb back then till the kosova conflict.

[MossadConspiracy]

Originally Posted by GOTFIVEONIT

he is a serb, what should we expect. i actually met our home state's governer years ago at mcc when he was a lowly state senator running for congress. no one knew he was a serb back then till the kosova conflict.

yeah but even if he's a serb, he didnt cook up the vaccines in his backyard. Theres no reason they couldnt have been used. A couple of things:

If the World Health Organization assessed them and reported that they were still potent, then that should be good reason to accept the vaccines. The WHO is active in vaccination programs all over pakistan and is seemingly trusted by the Pakistani government to vaccinate people every day.

The influenza vaccine is not made of a live virus, theres no way anyone could get the flu from it. There is almost no chance anyone could have any adverse reaction from it, its a very safe vaccine. The worst that could have happened is that someone could be vaccinated with one of those doses and still get the flu that year.

Pakistan didnt have enough vaccine doses to vaccinate the people who lived in the areas that were hit by the earthquake. The choice was not between some expired vaccines and some good ones, it was between expired vaccines (that had been determined to be potent) and no vaccine at all. Even if the vaccines didnt prevent the same number of cases that they would have a few months ago, they still wouldve prevented some cases. But, its probable that they wouldve been just as effective as ones that hadnt expired

like i said, this happened before in Nigeria and 1500 people got paralytic polio across several countries (almost all of them happened to be muslim children).

ws

[GOTFIVEONIT]

but blago himself is an idoit! he taxed us to death here in IL. imagine paying $1 per toll? thats how much we pay here in IL because of blago.

let me tell you something about Illinois's governer blago. he is a political hack. his father-in-law is a powerful alderman in Chicago's city council, thats how this guy got into politics to begin with.

[MossadConspiracy]

that may be, I dont know anything about blago. $1 in tolls sounds pretty low though, we pay alot more here

I just think its stupid to throw away vaccines whose quality is assured by the WHO when earthquake victims are at risk of getting sick or even dying from it (influenza can be deadly). If thats how it happened, then the pakistani public health services made a mistake. I'm sure it couldve happened in other ways as well.

ws

[GOTFIVEONIT]

Originally Posted by MossadConspiracy

that may be, I dont know anything about blago. $1 in tolls sounds pretty low though, we pay alot more here

I just think its stupid to throw away vaccines whose quality is assured by the WHO when earthquake victims are at risk of getting sick or even dying from it (influenza can be deadly). If thats how it happened, then the pakistani public health services made a mistake. I'm sure it couldve happened in other ways as well.

ws

then all that means that expired vaccines should not have been assued by WHO. they made the mistake that you are defending.

[shsh]

Mossad, i cant believe you are defending Blagojevich.

"After all, human beings are equal," said retired Lt. Gen. Farooq Ahmad Khan, who ran the Federal Relief Cell that coordinated earthquake relief in the first five months after the disaster. "They are not guinea pigs. And vaccines, if they are not good in one country, they should not be usable in another country."

would YOU want to get flu vaccines that were expired?

[MossadConspiracy]

Originally Posted by GOTFIVEONIT

then all that means that expired vaccines should not have been assued by WHO. they made the mistake that you are defending.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'assued' but what happened is that the group which analyzes vaccines for the WHO checked these (expired) vaccines and determined that they were potent. If there are unlimited vaccines by the tens of billions available, then there would be no need to bother with these. Somebody could have just destroyed them all, and Pakistan couldve just taken out a bunch of brand new ones and used those instead. But there werent any available, which is why these were donated to Pakistan in the first place. And since they were checked out and were potent, theres no reason why they shouldnt have been used. We are talking about an emergency where people were living in crowded refugee camps with unsanitary conditions, after all.

People died of influenza in those camps

[MossadConspiracy]

Originally Posted by shsh

Mossad, i cant believe you are defending Blagojevich.

"After all, human beings are equal," said retired Lt. Gen. Farooq Ahmad Khan, who ran the Federal Relief Cell that coordinated earthquake relief in the first five months after the disaster. "They are not guinea pigs. And vaccines, if they are not good in one country, they should not be usable in another country."

would YOU want to get flu vaccines that were expired?

To answer your question... if I was living somewhere that had been hit by some natural disaster, and I was living in an environment where diseases could spread very quickly, and there were no vaccines available except a flu vaccine that was expired but had been determined to be potent, then yes I would definitely take that vaccine. The worst case scenario is that the vaccine would do nothing and I might still get the flu. But thats unlikely. Most probably, it would give me immunity against whatever strains the vaccine happens to be targetting. And that would be a good thing. I would be protected against the illness. Obviously, if it was a choice between expired vaccines and vaccines that were not expired, then I would take the ones that were not expired. But that isnt the choice that these people had. It was either expired vaccines (that were still potent) or nothing at all.

ws

[shsh]

"The state somehow came up with the idea. And by the state, I mean the governor's office," said Stephen Tagge, a Springfield attorney hired by Ecosse. While the state was looking to find someplace that could benefit from the vaccine, even if it meant donating it, Tagge said, "we were looking for a place to sell it."

"Ecosse found itself in the middle of a political fight between Blagojevich, who wanted to pay the bill, and state Comptroller Daniel Hynes, who says he will not write a $2.6 million check for drugs the state never received."

blagojevich just wanted money....

[MossadConspiracy]

Originally Posted by shsh

"The state somehow came up with the idea. And by the state, I mean the governor's office," said Stephen Tagge, a Springfield attorney hired by Ecosse. While the state was looking to find someplace that could benefit from the vaccine, even if it meant donating it, Tagge said, "we were looking for a place to sell it."

"Ecosse found itself in the middle of a political fight between Blagojevich, who wanted to pay the bill, and state Comptroller Daniel Hynes, who says he will not write a $2.6 million check for drugs the state never received."

blagojevich just wanted money....

salam

i think you misread. the governor wanted to pay money, the comptroller was refusing to pay

he wasnt getting any money, if anything that passage you quoted portrays him as generous but i have no idea whether he is generous or not

ws

[shsh]

and mossad...you dont know what the result of expired vaccine could be...worst case scenario is that some kind of infections develops within the vaccine, which spreads to people once people are vaccinated, supposedly for flu...

sure...vaccines are dead viruses...but we know that it has expired. we dont know how it has chemically reacted or whether the flu vaccine is still flu vaccine...why try it on Pakistan...like that guy said...we are not guinea pigs to test stuff on...


screw WHO...nobody cares. why werent the vaccines given in America? why ship them over to Pakistan?

[shsh]

Originally Posted by MossadConspiracy

salam

i think you misread. the governor wanted to pay money, the comptroller was refusing to pay

he wasnt getting any money, if anything that passage you quoted portrays him as generous but i have no idea whether he is generous or not

ws

oh..yeah..i did misread it....sorry...


but you see... there is another thing wrong about this...if blagojevich had payed money for vaccines that werent even used...he would be using the taxpayers money not his own...and that would have caused an uproar...

[MossadConspiracy]

Originally Posted by shsh

and mossad...you dont know what the result of expired vaccine could be...worst case scenario is that some kind of infections develops within the vaccine, which spreads to people once people are vaccinated, supposedly for flu...

no, that kind of stuff doesnt happen. if theres no live virus in the vaccine, a virus wont just spring up out of nothing.

sometimes people have allergic reactions to vaccines. thats always a risk with any vaccine, expired or not.

Originally Posted by shsh

sure...vaccines are dead viruses...but we know that it has expired. we dont know how it has chemically reacted or whether the flu vaccine is still flu vaccine...why try it on Pakistan...like that guy said...we are not guinea pigs to test stuff on...

it wasnt being tested on pakistanis, the flu vaccine was extensively tested before it was produced commercially. Theres no need to test it on pakistanis or anyone else.

Originally Posted by shsh

screw WHO...nobody cares. why werent the vaccines given in America? why ship them over to Pakistan?

WHO is eradicating polio in Pakistan right now, and saving the lives of thousands of pakistani kids and keeping thousands of other pakistani kids from becoming paralyzed. That organization is probably the best part of the UN. And the reason the vaccines werent given to Americans is explained in the article. The FDA hadnt approved it yet (I guess the vaccine was for the strain thats known as bird flu or something like that). The whole point was that this big drug purchase had one of two destinations- either it would be destroyed or it would be donated to people who needed help. In the end, the vaccines just got destroyed, so it probably wouldve been smarter to just refuse to pay for them or to have them burned or something. But the issue of pakistani refugees getting dangerous strains of influenza and dying would still exist