[roberto]

Ministers request release of Guantanamo five
PA
Published: 07 August 2007
The Government has requested the release of five former UK residents being held in Guantanamo Bay, the Foreign Office said today.

The Foreign Secretary and Home Secretary are seeking the release of the men who were legally resident in the UK before their detention.

Foreign Secretary David Miliband has written to US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice to formally make the request.

The men, who have been named as Shaker Aamer, Jamil El Banna, Omar Deghayes, Binyam Mohamed and Abdennour Sameur, are not UK nationals but had been granted refugee status, indefinite leave or exceptional leave to remain before they were detained.

By January 2005 the Government had secured the release and return of all UK nationals detained at the centre but had not sought the release of this group of men.

The Foreign Office said it had reviewed its approach to the group in the light of its aim to see the closure of the centre and recent steps taken by the US government to reduce the numbers of detainees held there.

In a statement, the Foreign Office said: "The Foreign Secretary and Home Secretary have reviewed the Government's approach to this group of individuals in light of these ongoing developments, our long-held policy aim of securing the closure of Guantanamo Bay, and the need to maintain national security.

"They have decided to request the release and return of the five detainees who have links to the UK as former residents, having been granted refugee status, indefinite leave or exceptional leave to remain prior to their detention."

The statement added: "Our representations are limited to those with links to the United Kingdom as evidenced by their past lawful residence here."

The Foreign Office cautioned that the release and return of the men may take some time.

"The Government will, of course, continue to take all necessary measures to maintain national security.

"Should these men be returned to the UK, the same security considerations and actions will apply to them as would apply to any other foreign national in this country," the statement said.

The Government's move the seek the release of the men was welcomed by civil rights groups.

James Welch, legal director for campaign group Liberty said: "This change of policy is extremely welcome, especially if it signals a bigger change of approach on both sides of the Atlantic.

"Surely US and UK governments need no further evidence that internment, kidnap and torture have been completely counterproductive in the struggle against terrorism.

"It's high time that the special relationship returned to its original values of defending liberty rather than degrading it."

If they were terrorist, then I should imagine they will be even more committed, if not then their experience may well have made them into terrorist, so even at the risk of ,possibly, even more injustices, shouldn't they be watched, nothing more, a little more closely than others?

My guess is that they will

[Burnum]

Originally Posted by roberto

If they were terrorist, then I should imagine they will be even more committed, if not then their experience may well have made them into terrorist, so even at the risk of ,possibly, even more injustices, shouldn't they be watched, nothing more, a little more closely than others?

My guess is that they will

You know that not all brown skinned men are terrorists.

[roberto]

Originally Posted by Burnum

You know that not all brown skinned men are terrorists.

You appear to have a problem with peoples skin colour

[Burnum]

You appear to have a problem with peoples skin color

You know most people with a anti-islamic agenda are pretty much card carrying racists and hypocritically, you know, catholics only just stopped trying wipe out my race.

[roberto]

Originally Posted by Burnum

You know most people with a anti-islamic agenda are pretty much card carrying racists and hypocritically, you know, catholics only just stopped trying wipe out my race.

I fear you have many problems

[kellyjaz]

Carry on.

[Kaminyu]

Originally Posted by roberto

If they were terrorist, then I should imagine they will be even more committed, if not then their experience may well have made them into terrorist, so even at the risk of ,possibly, even more injustices, shouldn't they be watched, nothing more, a little more closely than others?

My guess is that they will

I don't think so.

First of all, most of the people in that gulag, have nothing to do with terrorism. They just happened to be at the wrong place at the wrong time. Second, I highly doubt they'd be "turned into terrorists", just from being there. Those who have been released certainly haven't been turned into terrorists. Why would these ones be any different?

[roberto]

Originally Posted by Kaminyu

I don't think so.

First of all, most of the people in that gulag, have nothing to do with terrorism. They just happened to be at the wrong place at the wrong time. Second, I highly doubt they'd be "turned into terrorists", just from being there. Those who have been released certainly haven't been turned into terrorists. Why would these ones be any different?

Just to clarify my "Guess they will" aplied to their being watched.

You may care to read this :

The Infamous Five should be left to rot in Guantanamo Bay | the Daily Mail

[Kaminyu]

Originally Posted by roberto

Just to clarify my "Guess they will" aplied to their being watched.

I know what you meant by that, but I wasn't talking about that. I was talking about your comment:

"if not then their experience may well have made them into terrorist"

Which I find to be ridiculous.

You may care to read this :

The Infamous Five should be left to rot in Guantanamo Bay | the Daily Mail

If he thinks Gitmo is such a rosy place to be for people, then mabye he should get locked up there and see what it's like.

He seems more concerned with how much of British residents/citizens they are, which I find to be irrelevent. They shouldn't even have been in that gulag in the first place if they're being released this easily, and weren't even charged with anything.

They were Muslims arrested in Afghanistan and Pakistan, (probably in one of the many indiscriminate sweeps that the occupation forces like to conduct) and then sent to Gitmo, and this guy says they should stay there because they didn't want to stay in Britain before? That's really ignorant.

[roberto]

[quote=Kaminyu;4540]I know what you meant by that, but I wasn't talking about that. I was talking about your comment:

"if not then their experience may well have made them into terrorist"

Which I find to be ridiculous.

Well you have little understanding of people and the desire for revenge

If he thinks Gitmo is such a rosy place to be for people, then mabye he should get locked up there and see what it's like.

Now your being silly

He seems more concerned with how much of British residents/citizens they are, which I find to be irrelevent.

Not so in terms of their being allowed back into the UK

They shouldn't even have been in that gulag in the first place if they're being released this easily, and weren't even charged with anything.

Not so easy in terms of time

They were Muslims arrested in Afghanistan and Pakistan, (probably in one of the many indiscriminate sweeps that the occupation forces like to conduct) and then sent to Gitmo, and this guy says they should stay there because they didn't want to stay in Britain before? That's really ignorant

The real point of his article is that they should not be allowed to return nor have they any right of return to the UK. Try reading the article again, slowly

[Kaminyu]

Originally Posted by roberto

Well you have little understanding of people and the desire for revenge

Then where was this desire in all the other individuals who were released from Gitmo?

Do people who are incarcerated wrongfully, all have this desire for revenge?

And, if they do, do they actually act on it?

The real point of his article is that they should not be allowed to return nor have they any right of return to the UK. Try reading the article again, slowly

Yes, I know, and he's basing this point on how much of British residents/citizens they were beforehand, which I think is meaningless. If they're innocent, and willing to return to the UK, then there's no good reason why they shouldn't be allowed to. If they really don't want to be there, then when they arrive they can always move elsewhere.

[Burnum]

I fear you have many problems

I fear you have problems as well.

Yes, I know, and he's basing this point on how much of British residents/citizens they were beforehand, which I think is meaningless. If they're innocent, and willing to return to the UK, then there's no good reason why they shouldn't be allowed to.

According to Roberto it's because they're Muslim.

[roberto]

[quote=Kaminyu;4547]Then where was this desire in all the other individuals who were released from Gitmo?

Do people who are incarcerated wrongfully, all have this desire for revenge?

Obviously not all

And, if they do, do they actually act on it?

Although I believe that many terrorist act out of misguided distorted beliefs there are those who act out of hatred for what they perceive to be injustices against themselves or others

Yes, I know, and he's basing this point on how much of British residents/citizens they were beforehand, which I think is meaningless. If they're innocent, and willing to return to the UK, then there's no good reason why they shouldn't be allowed to. If they really don't want to be there, then when they arrive they can always move elsewhere

The writer of the article considers that their behaviour has been such that suspicion is justified and that they should not be allowed to return to this country, I'm inclined to agree, although I would compromise on the basis of careful observation over a period of years

[roberto]

[quote=Burnum;4568]I fear you have problems as well.

According to Roberto it's because they're Muslim

Please indicate, which post of mine supports your allegation

[Kaminyu]

Originally Posted by roberto

Obviously not all

Have ANY released prisoners from that gulag had this desire?

Although I believe that many terrorist act out of misguided distorted beliefs there are those who act out of hatred for what they perceive to be injustices against themselves or others

But we're talking about POWs. I somehow doubt that after someone (especially an innocent person) is released, that they'd do stuff to get themselves sent back there again.

The writer of the article considers that their behaviour has been such that suspicion is justified and that they should not be allowed to return to this country, I'm inclined to agree, although I would compromise on the basis of careful observation over a period of years

Suspicion isn't justified on their behavior, nor is it really based on it. The suspicion here is more based on who they are, not really what they were doing, and I don't agree with that.