[kenneth]

An important link, people.

The corporate media is NOT allowing a free flow of ideas.

WAKE UP.

Democracy Now! | Breaking the Sound Barrier: Democracy Now! Re-Hosts NBC Las Vegas Debate to Include Kucinich After NBC Wins Appeal to Exclude Him

[kenneth]

2008-01-08 Greens Protest The Exclusion Of Antiwar Candidates From Democratic And Republican Primary Debates

Barring of Kucinich, Gravel, and Paul amounts to censorship of candidates whose positions are unacceptable to the Democratic and Republican parties, major media, and their corporate sponsors, say Greens

First Green presidential candidates' debate set for San Francisco on Sunday, January 13


WASHINGTON, DC -- Green Party leaders and candidates protested the exclusion of Dennis Kucinich, Mike Gravel, and Ron Paul from primary presidential debates sponsored by major news organizations.

Greens noted that Mr. Kucinich, Mr. Gravel, and Mr. Paul hold strong positions against the Iraq war and other Bush policies, in agreement with most Americans but contrary to the positions of other Democrats and Republicans running for the White House.

Mr. Kucinich, like the Green Party, favors single-payer national health care, unlike his fellow Democratic presidential candidates and the major media, which rely on corporate campaign contributions and advertising dollars from insurance firms, HMOs, and pharmaceutical manufacturers. Mr. Kucinich was excluded from an ABC TV debate on January 5.

The six candidates for the Green Party's presidential nomination, all of whom oppose the war, will be featured in upcoming Green debates. The first debate will take place in San Francisco on January 13 <http://www.gp.org/press/pr-state.php?ID=9>. The nomination will be decided at the Green Party's 2008 national convention, July 10-13 in Chicago.

Jody Grage, treasurer of the Green Party of the United States: "In democratic elections, voters have a right to be informed about all the candidates whose names they'll see on the ballot. Fox and ABC TV have violated the public interest and their licenses to use the publicly owned airwaves. They're acting like the official news bureaus of dictatorships."

Jason Wallace, peace activist, Iraq War veteran, and Green candidate for Congress in Illinois (11th district) <http://www.electwallace.us>: "It's no accident that Kucinich, Gravel, and Paul -- the most vocal opponents of the Iraq invasion -- are getting shut out of the debates. While the Democratic and Republican parties and big media conglomerates try to close down serious public discussion over the Iraq war, the Green Party's 'Peace Slate' will continue to represent the opinion of most Americans, whom poll after poll have shown oppose the war. On Election Day 2008, the only truly antiwar candidates on the ballot will be from the Green Party or another third party or will be independent."

Rodger Jennings, Green candidate for Congress in Illinois (12th District) <http://www.rodgerjennings.org>: "The Democratic and Republican parties and media companies like Fox and ABC have censored the opinions of the majority of Americans, who want to see a quick end to the Iraq War. It's revealing that Barack Obama and Mike Huckabee won in Iowa. Among the frontrunners within their respective parties, they've been the most critical of President Bush's foreign policies. But Mr. Huckabee has only criticized the Bush Administration's strategic blunders in Iraq, rather the war itself. While Mr. Obama has opposed the war, he only favors a vague and delayed timetable for partial withdrawal of troops, which suggests that the occupation will continue in some form regardless of which Democratic frontrunner might be elected in November. Mr. Obama has also added his voice to the military threat against Iran, and says nothing about holding the Bush Administration and war profiteers accountable for their crimes. Unfortunately, voters are being denied the chance to hear the real antiwar candidates and are being told that Dennis Kucinich, Mike Gravel, and Ron Paul shouldn't be taken seriously."

John Walsh, Massachusetts Green-Rainbow Party delegate to the Green Party's National Committee: "In recent elections, the Commission on Presidential Debates, the corporate-owned body controlled by the two established parties, has only allowed Democratic and Republican presidential candidates and has barred Green, independent, and other candidates from participating. We urge all Americans -- especially those who oppose bipartisan warhawk policies on Iraq, Afghanistan, and Iran -- to speak out in demand of fair elections and election coverage, and inclusion of all qualified candidates in the debates, regardless of their positions or party memberships."

[Kaminyu]

Originally Posted by GOTFIVEONIT

to the ron paul supporters. what happend in michigan? Muslims, account for 800,000 of the state's population, yet paul onl scored 6% or 45,000 votes! and dont give some nonsense about vote fraud either. an overwhelming majority of muslims who live in michigan are arab-american, yet where were they for ron paul?

Diebold happened in Michigan, as it's happened in NH and Iowa.

Remember, "Those who cast the vote decide nothing. Those who count the vote decide everything."

People could vote for RP to their heart's content, but what good is it if the people counting the votes want to stop him from gaining anything in the primaries by any means necessary?

[MossadConspiracy]

Originally Posted by GOTFIVEONIT

indian doctors right now, who pass the boards, usually hold green cards. i think you could drive health care costs down ten fold, if egyptian, indian, or middle eastern doctors were brought in under the h1b employment visas minus a green card. ya then watch them work happily for $40k a year. the laws could even be changed for experienced doctors to even skip the boards altogether. we are talking about people's health here, and its highway robbery for any doctor to be paid $150k a year. some sort of salary cap should be enacted and placed.

ok, you obviously dont understand the process that a doctor from another country has to go through to become a doctor in America. It isnt simply a matter of passing the boards.

Secondly, doctors can work here on a visa

Third, the reason healthcare costs are high is mostly not connected to the income of doctors

Fourth, this is America. We dont have salary caps here. If you want that then go to North Korea or something. The sky is the limit in America

Originally Posted by GOTFIVEONIT

maybe then people will stop acting like doctors are like the highest caste? maybe then healtcare costs will drive down and people will have access to healthcare. i think medical students should do one year of part time community service in a clinic BEFORE they are issued a medical license. these are just some ideas of driving down healthcare costs. maybe we should start making these doctors set competitive rates? so these are many of my reasons for berating doctors mossad. not what you claim that they are.

Having medical students do community service wouldnt do anything to healthcare costs, but its not a bad idea. Just so you know, alot of medical students do alot of community work. Actually, I'd say that pre-meds and med students are probably more active in community service than any other type of students.

And I'm sorry but I'm going to have to disagree with you about the other comment. The amount of time you spend complaining about how "rich doctors" take all the desi girls and how all the beautiful desi chicks are hunting for doctors says very strongly that this is your beef with medical people.

ws

[GOTFIVEONIT]

the hmo doesnt treat you, the doctor does. his income earned is determined by that there should be salary caps, which is what many politicians are looking into right now. doctor reimbursments from hmo's are now being debated in the primaries, whic is a very good thing. you keep blaming the insurance companies, but look who is in cahoots with the hmo's? its the doctors! if an experienced foriegn doctor is doing just fine in his home country, then this liscense should be universal and transferable in this country too. the politicans can deal with that, if they want to lower health care costs. its cheaper to go overseas now for medical treatement than to get it done here in the u.s. whats a matter? a doctor in the u.s. cant perform an operation for the same costs an indian doctor will do it for in india? or mexico? this is why i blame the doctors. im watching micheal moore's 'sicko' right now, very interesting. doctors who give out denials get bonuses from the hmo's! i worked in a hmo once. i saw checks upon checks being sent out to doctors and it was ridiculous! the amounts in these checks were just plain disgusting. its pure simple greed and nothing more and that tooa t the expense of peoples health. even when you are insured you still dont get covered. whats a matter a doctor wont take a patient in for a small amount? its not theres a shortage of supply for sick patients. and that's the problem, no competition, no free market system. its almost like a cartel. maybe doctors should be forced to start competing over prices, and maybe then health care costs will go down. why dont doctors volunteer part time at clinics? but they wont, you know why, because they prey on human misery and nothing more. so you can accuse me of whatever you want, i have already stated my reasons, which are many. maybe when people can afford to get treatement, ill start to have a lil more respect for the profession.

SICKO Part 1

SICKO Part 2

[GOTFIVEONIT]

if the democrats really want to solve the healthcare crisis as they claim they do, then the govt. should set up a national health care plan, where people can pay into it and take advantage of it whenever they need, regardless of what thier ailment is or whatever thier medical history is or was. it will force hmo's to start being competitive, or might even put them out of business, good riddence. instead of increasing taxes to pay for this, let the people who choose to take part in this plan, to pay into it, and pool all the money together. right now the federal government spends most of its budget on social security and medicare. that would reduce costs to medicare, and it wont make the system go broke. at the same time, the salary caps should be implemented on doctors, or at least on doctors who take in patients from this plan. if a doctor refuses to take part in the salary cap, or a cap on what he can charge for treatement, or simply refuses to take in a patient under the national health plan, then he should have his liscense suspended or revoked! becuase no doctor should be making over $200K a year, or charging $60k for an operation, that a doctor in India or mexico charges only $3k to do!

at least with a national health plan system in place, where everyone can pool thier money, you wont have greedy hmos and greedy doctors trying to rich quick schemes, and it takes out the profit motivation out of it, the way hmo's are currently run right now.

tell me mossad, the day you become a doctor, and a dying man falls flat on the doorway entrance of your hospital that your working at, are you going to turn him away because he has no insurance or any money to pay for his treatment that can make him healthy again?

and dont give me this crap about how this is america, we have salary caps in the nfl and nba, where do you think i got the idea from.

[GOTFIVEONIT]

oooooooooo socialized medicine!

nothing put more fear in us than the thought of that.

And the chief fear mongers against 'socialized' medicine, have always been the good doctors of the A.M.A. - The American Medical Association.

"this will put the government smack into your hospital. defining services, setting standards, establishing commitees, calling for reports, deciding who gets in and who gets out. after all the government has to treat everyone fair and equal dont ch'ya know. take us all the way down the road to a new system of medicine for everybody" - Dr. Edward Annis, President-elect, A.M.A., 1962.

Yes, medicine for everyone. the A.M.A. didnt want that. and to drive the point home further, they held thousands of coffe clatches all over the country. where they invited thier neighbors to come and listen to a record, made by a well known actor, on the 'evils' of socialized medicine.

"my name is ronald reagan. one of the traditional methods of imposing stateism or socialism on a people, has been by way of medicine. the doctor begins to lose freedoms. its like a telling a lie and one leads to another. but doctor decides he wants to practice in one town. and the government has to say to him, that you cant live in that town, they already have enough doctors, you have to go someplace else. all of us can see what happens, once you establish the precedent, that the government can determine a man's working place, and his working methods. and behind it will come federal programs that will invade every area of freedom as we have known it in this country. until one day we will awake to find that we have socialism." - Ronald Reagan, 'Ronald Reagan Speaks Out Against Socialized Medicine'.

The times may have changed, but the scare tactics havent.

- Micheal Moore, "Sicko".

[MossadConspiracy]

Originally Posted by GOTFIVEONIT

the hmo doesnt treat you, the doctor does. his income earned is determined by that there should be salary caps, which is what many politicians are looking into right now. doctor reimbursments from hmo's are now being debated in the primaries, whic is a very good thing. you keep blaming the insurance companies, but look who is in cahoots with the hmo's? its the doctors! if an experienced foriegn doctor is doing just fine in his home country, then this liscense should be universal and transferable in this country too. the politicans can deal with that, if they want to lower health care costs. its cheaper to go overseas now for medical treatement than to get it done here in the u.s. whats a matter? a doctor in the u.s. cant perform an operation for the same costs an indian doctor will do it for in india? or mexico? this is why i blame the doctors. im watching micheal moore's 'sicko' right now, very interesting. doctors who give out denials get bonuses from the hmo's! i worked in a hmo once. i saw checks upon checks being sent out to doctors and it was ridiculous! the amounts in these checks were just plain disgusting. its pure simple greed and nothing more and that tooa t the expense of peoples health. even when you are insured you still dont get covered. whats a matter a doctor wont take a patient in for a small amount? its not theres a shortage of supply for sick patients. and that's the problem, no competition, no free market system. its almost like a cartel. maybe doctors should be forced to start competing over prices, and maybe then health care costs will go down. why dont doctors volunteer part time at clinics? but they wont, you know why, because they prey on human misery and nothing more. so you can accuse me of whatever you want, i have already stated my reasons, which are many. maybe when people can afford to get treatement, ill start to have a lil more respect for the profession.

SICKO Part 1

SICKO Part 2

healthcare costs are mostly coming from expenses that have nothing to do with doctors. Doctors today are making alot less than doctors did in the 70s or 60s or 50s (taking into account inflation), yet healthcare costs today are enormously higher than they were back then. The reasons have nothing to do with doctors or their incomes. The reasons are that the population is older, more chronically ill, and utilizing healthcare resources much more than previous generations did. The reason is that there has been a large proliferation of expensive and widely prescribed (and important) prescription drugs. The reason is that long-term care is used much more often today than ever before. Finally, the healthcare industry is unique in the fact that technological advances tend to increase costs rather than reduce them. Doctors have nothing to do with.

by the way there are no democratic politicians looking into salary caps for doctors or anything similar. None of their proposals involve anything like that, I dont know if you're making that up or whether you misunderstood something about their policies. Most doctors are not even paid by salary

I'm sure all of that was lost on you and you'll repeat the same nonsense again and again, however maybe somebody else will read it and think about it or go get a book about it. I learned about the healthcare system from a very good textbook and I can look up the title for anyone who is interested

ws

[MossadConspiracy]

Originally Posted by GOTFIVEONIT

if the democrats really want to solve the healthcare crisis as they claim they do, then the govt. should set up a national health care plan, where people can pay into it and take advantage of it whenever they need, regardless of what thier ailment is or whatever thier medical history is or was. it will force hmo's to start being competitive, or might even put them out of business, good riddence. instead of increasing taxes to pay for this, let the people who choose to take part in this plan, to pay into it, and pool all the money together. right now the federal government spends most of its budget on social security and medicare. that would reduce costs to medicare, and it wont make the system go broke. at the same time, the salary caps should be implemented on doctors, or at least on doctors who take in patients from this plan. if a doctor refuses to take part in the salary cap, or a cap on what he can charge for treatement, or simply refuses to take in a patient under the national health plan, then he should have his liscense suspended or revoked! becuase no doctor should be making over $200K a year, or charging $60k for an operation, that a doctor in India or mexico charges only $3k to do!

this, along with your idea for the medical boards here to automatically honor licenses of doctors from other countries are very bad ideas that would destroy the quality of care in America. However they are far removed from the ideas that politicians have proposed, including stalinist ones like Kucinich

Originally Posted by GOTFIVEONIT

tell me mossad, the day you become a doctor, and a dying man falls flat on the doorway entrance of your hospital that your working at, are you going to turn him away because he has no insurance or any money to pay for his treatment that can make him healthy again?

If a patient fell in front of a hospital he would be taken to the ER because, and it is illegal for ERs to turn anyone away regardless of their insurance status or even their immigration status.

Originally Posted by GOTFIVEONIT

and dont give me this crap about how this is america, we have salary caps in the nfl and nba, where do you think i got the idea from.

Those salary caps exist in order to keep the sport fair by making it impossible for one team to be generously funded to the point where it can buy all the best players. The same contracts that establish salary caps also establish minimum salaries of more than a half million dollars a year to throw or bounce a ball around, not that theres anything wrong with that

ws

[raatkirani2005]

Originally Posted by GOTFIVEONIT

indian doctors right now, who pass the boards, usually hold green cards. i think you could drive health care costs down ten fold, if egyptian, indian, or middle eastern doctors were brought in under the h1b employment visas minus a green card. ya then watch them work happily for $40k a year. the laws could even be changed for experienced doctors to even skip the boards altogether. we are talking about people's health here, and its highway robbery for any doctor to be paid $150k a year. some sort of salary cap should be enacted and placed.

maybe then people will stop acting like doctors are like the highest caste? maybe then healthcare costs will drive down and people will have access to healthcare. i think medical students should do one year of part time community service in a clinic BEFORE they are issued a medical license. these are just some ideas of driving down healthcare costs. maybe we should start making these doctors set competitive rates? so these are many of my reasons for berating doctors mossad. not what you claim that they are.

This is the biggest bunch of garbage I've ever read. First of all, do you even know how hard it is to become a doctor? How much you have to sacrifice? When others are having fun in their college years, goofing off, getting laid, going to parties, most serious premed students are isolated, with their noses in their books or in the lab. It's a huge sacrifice in the prime of their lives. That continues during med school and residency (where incidentally they work their tails off for virtually no money). Would you work overnights and weekends without extra compensation? I doubt it, but doctors do. Continue to when they get an actual job...again they are working their tails off....weekends, late nights, doing CME, etc. They have hospital administration and the threat of ridiculous lawsuits choking them. You seriously have no inkling of the kind of pressure physicians face. Everything they do is scruitinized to a T in this litigious society. One of my husband's friends is being sued by the family of an 85 year old woman because...she died. Seriously, the old lady kicks the bucket from natural causes and her family is convinced they have a lawsuit. The amount of stress these lawsuits puts on doctors is incomprehensible.

In addition to what Mossad stated, healthcare costs are high for another couple of reasons:
1. Insurance companies and their complicated demands for billing specialists, coding specialists, practice managers, and all that BS
2. Litigious patients and their shyster lawyers (I'm looking at you John Edwards) who sue at the drop of a hat.
3. Hospital administration who pocket profits
4. Patients who demand extreme treatments for every little ailment. A simple cold? They NEED antibiotics. A little back pain? They NEED Vicodin. How about bucking up and not medicalizing every single thing that happens?

The general population is always so quick to blame doctors for healthcare costs. We live in a very unhealthy society where everyone is fat and depressed. Perhaps the government should spend money tackling the root cause of these issues (i.e. educate the masses about eating less, exercising more, working on their relationships, improving mental health, finding holistic ways to improve their lives) rather than war mongering. Doctors make good money, but not that good. They don't get bonuses like CEOs, nor do they get commissions like those in the financial sector. And truth be told, why should a doctor work for free (except for charity or pro-bono work)? He's providing a service and you should pay for that service. We never ask police officers, firefighters, teachers, nurses, dentists or anyone else to give us their precious services for free. Doctors work very hard for their money and if you worked as hard, you'd make the same amount too and you wouldn't be here *****ing about their incomes.

[raatkirani2005]

Originally Posted by GOTFIVEONIT

becuase no doctor should be making over $200K a year, or charging $60k for an operation, that a doctor in India or mexico charges only $3k to do!

The 60K for an operation isn't going to the doctor. It goes to the hospital, who then pays for all the equipment, technology and people involved with the operation, as well as on their "administration" costs. It sounds so ridiculous when you compare the costs of surgery in India/Mexico with the US. By your logic, no engineer should get more than $100 a month, because that's what they pay in India. No house should cost more than $1000 because that's the going rate for shacks in Mexico. Puh-lease.

Like I said above, if you had even an inkling of what doctors do, man, you'd think they were underpaid. People treating diseases, working with blood, guts, people with stinky crusty genitalia, pus, mucus, vomit, feces and every other nasty thing you can think of are worth their weight in gold.

[GOTFIVEONIT]

by the way there are no democratic politicians looking into salary caps for doctors or anything similar. None of their proposals involve anything like that, I dont know if you're making that up or whether you misunderstood something about their policies. Most doctors are not even paid by salary

i know you accuse me of making this up, but on cnn, it was mentioned that one of the proposals being talked about is 'doctor reimbursment'. i didnt make up that word, as you can see i can barely even spell it. this is what some of th analysts on cnn had mentioned when discussing the primary debates. they said that there were three options being looked into, and the third option was LOWERING 'doctor reimbursment' from hmo's. and i was very pleased to hear that, because its something that i have been talking about for a very long time. you know why its being looked into? because its common sense, or people who would have never heard about it from someone else, wouldnt have thought it up. if im thinking it, how come cnn analysts are thinking the same thing too? because its common sense. so no i didnt 'misunderstand', and i certainly didnt make it up either as you keep claiming.