[jinnzaman]

Originally Posted by Variable

That was kind of mean. I don't see where she said it was going to solve the world's problems.... and I think she was directing her statement at people who were too lazy to vote.

But see there's the problem. Why do you presume people who choose not to vote to be lazy? I've met several people who have intentionally not voted in any election or chose not to vote and they had a lot of reasons for it. If one is going to presume that they're lazy, why not also presume that people who encourage others to vote for the sheer sake of voting are naive and stupid?

[sumiyia]

Originally Posted by jinnzaman

But see there's the problem. Why do you presume people who choose not to vote to be lazy? I've met several people who have intentionally not voted in any election or chose not to vote and they had a lot of reasons for it. If one is going to presume that they're lazy, why not also presume that people who encourage others to vote for the sheer sake of voting are naive and stupid?

i don't think jelly or variable were presuming that non-voters are lazy. but you can't deny that there are some that are, and that is what they were referring to. if ya make an informed and independent decision not to vote, then gosh darnit, charlie, more power to ya! :wink:

support our troops! (too many palin videos and commentary articles at too late an hour... )

[thejellymill]

I was talking about the people who go to the student union every single day for coffee or are just passing through but won't stop for 2 minutes to register at the automatic voting registration machine thing. They say they want to vote and talk about politics all the time but they let the opportunity pass them by and when Oct 7 comes they will be complaining that they "didn't have time." College students and young adults are the worst when it comes to voter turnout.

[sally]

Originally Posted by thejellymill

College students and young adults are the worst when it comes to voter turnout.

That's been proven not to be true this time around..

[sally]

If you're a dumb American, that speech probably did nothing to convince you to vote for Obama/Biden. Joe Biden obviously refuted her claims in a logical fashion, but he was still incredibly monotonous for the most part..his facial expressions were blank, absent..and he was looking at the moderator while talking instead of directly at the camera in the tv viewers face it seemed to me. In the latter portion however he started looking more at the camera, which definitely made him sound more confident. Not that he wasn't confident, and I think he's a no nonsense guy like he's not going to talk to the camera as if he's talking to a bunch of kindergarteners, but the reality is that he was doing just that and a little bit of all those psychological cues are at times essential when speaking . Anyway in terms of language and making overall sense he was obviously a winner, more fluid, coherent, less repetitive of words, less regurgitative, etc.

Sarah Palin was more personable...the change in her voice and facial expressions as well as looking directly in the cameras eye at all points probably upped her in the eyes of the average dumba$$. Esp given her latest repute, all she really had to do was try and pretend she was holding a sentence together though she wasn't...lots of them were run ons. Enunciating every word slowly and 'fully' (except nuclear lol) + the change in tone resulted in like, time filler for her. Aside from a few minor refutations of the superficial variety, she had no standing, but she was definitely speaking to a dumb audience (like was there ever a doubt?). She was most likely trained in 'physical stature endurance for the speaker who has no other hope'

In the end, for the person who uses a little bit of their brains, all this stuff will be readily apparent. It doesn't matter if Joe Biden failed to do all that personable crap, you're still going to find him better. And Sarah Palin will remain still to you a clueless woman.

Depending on what the goals of this debate were, I guess you could make a decision about who 'won'. I suspect that the presence of Palin supporters will only begin to surface more strongly i.e. people who would've gotten around to voting for McCain anyway but until now were just putting it off are just going to start putting themselves out there more...but that won't have accomplished any conversions

Which if you're really going to deduce there won't be any...I think Obama/Biden know that they can't dumb down their ideals to appeal to stupid people anymore, it's too late for that..stupid people are slow and take a while to convince. There's only a month left now. They'll benefit just fine from the undecided population - theyre thinking and hoping the undecided voters are in the position they're in because they're smart enough to make a distinction between the crap that Palin is spewing and relatively rather sensible stuff coming from Biden.

I think at times Biden was like, what the hell? I can't wait to get this over with..can't believe I'm standing here trying to address a womans whose naive-ness amounts to epic proportions. If he even began refuting her every claim in a dumbed down fashion, he would've needed another 3 hours..which obviously was unrealistic but the average dumb joe would've lost their attention span too. And who's interested in a history lesson anyway?

Really the whole thing was akin to watching a smart Islamican who doesn't use too many emoticons to convey his/her point, and a teenybopper refuting with lots and lots of smiley faces and flowers to make herself look like the better person in the argument even though there's no substance

[jinnzaman]

haha, there's a playlist on itunes called "Songs for Sarah Palin"

It has some of the following songs:

"Sarah, You're Not For Me" - Dear Nora
""Change No Change" - Takka Takka
"Stupidty Tries" - Elliot Smith
"Alaska" - Camera Obscura
"Debate Exposes Doubt" - Death Can for Cutie
"Behold! The Night Mare" - Smashing Pumpkins
"Are You Experienced?" - The Jimi Hendrix Experience
"Haven't Got a Clue" - The Flaming Lips
"Russian Lullaby" - John Coltrane
"When The President Talks to God" by Bright Eyes
"Give Up" - CSS
"Symphony 10: Could This Really Be the End?" - Emily Wells
"A Distorted Reality Is Now a Necessity to Be Free" - Elliot Smith

hahhahaha, mad props to the person who made this.

[Timbit]

Originally Posted by jinnzaman

You've got a lot of growing up to do if you think voting is the solution to the world's problems.

She said nothing of the sort. It's easy to hate on Jellymill, but you're better than that.

[thejellymill]

Originally Posted by Timbit

She said nothing of the sort. It's easy to hate on Jellymill, but you're better than that.

why is it "easy to hate on jellymill?" I've always wondered if I'm imagining this "lets pick on jellymill" attitude around here but apparently I'm not.. what gives?

[Timbit]

Originally Posted by thejellymill

why is it "easy to hate on jellymill?" I've always wondered if I'm imagining this "lets pick on jellymill" attitude around here but apparently I'm not.. what gives?

Yeah, I see it and I don't understand it either.
Islamicans are just mean. And act like sheep sometimes.

[jinnzaman]

Originally Posted by sumiyia

i don't think jelly or variable were presuming that non-voters are lazy. but you can't deny that there are some that are, and that is what they were referring to. if ya make an informed and independent decision not to vote, then gosh darnit, charlie, more power to ya! :wink:

support our troops! (too many palin videos and commentary articles at too late an hour... )

Yes, she did say non-voters are lazy:

College students and young adults in our age group are so lazy, I know people who talk a mile a minute about politics but have no intention of voting. Get out and vote people!!

In terms of presuming laziness, I don't think thats the case. I don't see why there needs to be a presumption at all. Many people choose not to vote because they don't like the candidates or they feel that their vote won't make a difference or that they won't be able to influence the issues they care about. Thats not laziness.

If you studied some polls about this subject, most of the people who don't vote or aren't registered to vote usually have reasons, and laziness isn't one of them.

[jinnzaman]

Originally Posted by Timbit

She said nothing of the sort. It's easy to hate on Jellymill, but you're better than that.

No, of course she didn't. My point was that if you're going to presume that people who don't vote are lazy, why not presume that people who advocated "voting for the sake of voting" instead of adhering to principles are naive and simple-minded.

[jinnzaman]

Originally Posted by thejellymill

why is it "easy to hate on jellymill?" I've always wondered if I'm imagining this "lets pick on jellymill" attitude around here but apparently I'm not.. what gives?

Maybe if you weren't such a Palin, people wouldn't treat you like one.



Seriously though, jokes aside, you come off as a teenybopper: someone whose highly energetic and pretentious and throws a temper tantrum when they get criticized. If you cant take the heat, then don't make dumbass comments.

[Timbit]

Originally Posted by jinnzaman

No, of course she didn't. My point was that if you're going to presume that people who don't vote are lazy, why not presume that people who advocated "voting for the sake of voting" instead of adhering to principles are naive and simple-minded.

Yeah, I think a vote should always be educated and informed.
People shouldn't vote just 'cause it's their 'civic duty' or 'cause they feel they should.

Can't speak for Jellymill, but perhaps she wasn't advocated voting for the sake of voting but exhorting people to vote (for the right party) 'cause she thinks it'll make an actual difference?

[jinnzaman]

Originally Posted by Timbit

Yeah, I think a vote should always be educated and informed.
People shouldn't vote just 'cause it's their 'civic duty' or 'cause they feel they should.

Can't speak for Jellymill, but perhaps she wasn't advocated voting for the sake of voting but exhorting people to vote (for the right party) 'cause she thinks it'll make an actual difference?

Well, if you're going to assume that people who don't vote are lazy, then that implies that you think that voting is always the right thing to do regardless of the circumstances. Thats a pretty reasonable expectation that such people believe that you should vote for the sake of voting.