[GOTFIVEONIT]

Originally Posted by MossadConspiracy

Its much better to keep American money flowing to both Israel and Egypt than to cut off the money to both Israel and Egypt.

Also, Ron Paul isnt just a supporter of depriving poor Egyptians and Africans and all other aid recipients of their money, he's also a big fan of depriving poor Americans. If people can opt out of social security (as he proposes) then social security is done. He has always been against welfare and has voted against every expansion of welfare programs ever proposed since he took his seat. He's against medicare which is the largest healthcare payer in the country and one of the biggest social programs in this country (he's also against medicaid). He is a nativist and has by far the most punishing anti-immigrant agenda out of any candidate in either party so its kind of odd for a descendant of immigrants to support him. He is against environmental regulations on businesses, which seemed to be something you believed in quite recently. He's against the concept of international law and the legitimacy of international organizations such as the UN and certainly the ICC, which also seems to be something you believe in. he did make the comments that i mentioned regarding blacks. etc etc etc

for a muslim voter who only cares about one or two issues, namely Israel and Iraq, he might seem to be an attractive choice

But anyway, he didnt even get 10% of the vote in Iowa, so he it doesnt matter. The guy has no chance, his run is dead

i wonder if ron paul will still be in the race, by the time maryland holds its primaries for kaminay to vote in hahahaha

[GOTFIVEONIT]

Originally Posted by Kaminyu

I can't say for sure if he would be better for Muslims, but saying he'd be less likely to be a warmonger isn't quite accurate:

Obama supports war with Iran (he sees the civil war in Iraq as actually a war with Iran)

Obama more of the same pro-war pro-israel BS

Obama votes with Israel on Lebanese invasion

Obama support for Israel

Obama would consider missile strikes on Iran and Pakistan (dead link):



And then there is his speech at AIPAC (which is too long to post here).

On the other hand, you have Ron Paul, who is a non-interventionist (i.e. doesn't believe in getting involved with foreign affairs at all), and wants to cut off all aid to Israel.

So who's less of a warmonger?

you forgot to mention that he has already threatend to bomb pakistan, and nuke pakistan and afghanistan to 'get bin laden'. its not always about arabs ya know.

[Kaminyu]

Originally Posted by MossadConspiracy

Its much better to keep American money flowing to both Israel and Egypt than to cut off the money to both Israel and Egypt.

How so?

Interventionism is what created the necessity for them to receive money anyway. Wouldn't non-interventionism make them more independent?

Also, Ron Paul isnt just a supporter of depriving poor Egyptians and Africans and all other aid recipients of their money, he's also a big fan of depriving poor Americans. If people can opt out of social security (as he proposes) then social security is done. He has always been against welfare and has voted against every expansion of welfare programs ever proposed since he took his seat. He's against medicare which is the largest healthcare payer in the country and one of the biggest social programs in this country (he's also against medicaid). He is a nativist and has by far the most punishing anti-immigrant agenda out of any candidate in either party so its kind of odd for a descendant of immigrants to support him. He is against environmental regulations on businesses, which seemed to be something you believed in quite recently. He's against the concept of international law and the legitimacy of international organizations such as the UN and certainly the ICC, which also seems to be something you believe in. he did make the comments that i mentioned regarding blacks. etc etc etc

His policies about immigration are related to curving illegal immigration. His stance against birthright citizenship seems to be targeted towards illegal immigrants who have children born in the US, and thus the parents automatically become citizens.

His view is that the US should have the same immigration policy as everyone else. Not that I agree with his immigration policies anyway, I just don't have much a particularly strong opinion against them at this time.

Here's his website: Ron Paul 2008 — Hope for America, for anyone who wants to know what his stance is on these issues.

And no, he did not makes those comment regarding blacks. It was a staffer who did, who was then immediately fired, and those statements have since been recanted.

He views racism the same way I do (i.e. as an ugly form of collectivism), as well as the solution to it (i.e. individualism), which is another reason why I plan to vote for him.

for a muslim voter who only cares about one or two issues, namely Israel and Iraq, he might seem to be an attractive choice

But anyway, he didnt even get 10% of the vote in Iowa, so he it doesnt matter. The guy has no chance, his run is dead

Actually he did get 10% in Iowa. I know, I checked.

[Kaminyu]

Originally Posted by GOTFIVEONIT

i wonder if ron paul will still be in the race, by the time maryland holds its primaries for kaminay to vote in hahahaha

Hard to say, with all the vote fraud going on. Still, he managed 10% in Iowa, which is pretty good, considering that they didn't like his stance on Ethanol, he was competing with Christian nutjobs (Iowa's favorites), and had the ever-present vote rigging working against him. If he doesn't last by the time they reach Maryland, I'm probably not even going to bother with the primaries, and probably just vote for a 3rd party in the elections.

However, winning is going to be difficult for him, since the problem with vote fraud hasn't been resolved and the propaganda against him is getting more desperate. On top of that, his policies are TOO practical for a lot of people, who have invested too much emotional attachment into what they think is good. Unfortunately for his opponents though, stopping Ron Paul does not mean that they're going to stop his revolution.

you forgot to mention that he has already threatend to bomb pakistan, and nuke pakistan and afghanistan to 'get bin laden'. its not always about arabs ya know.

Iranians aren't Arabs, and the dead link did mention Pakistan.

[m_ali_qazi]

Ron Paul has a brutal immigration policy and he's definitely a nativist like MC said. But he's still worth supporting because he's the only one that threatens the status quo and he's the only who's genuine and believes in his own ideas while all others including obama just pander to their public. They all sound like they're reading from scripts.

[GOTFIVEONIT]

well right now, as a voter, im more concerned about domestic issues. such as the economy, healthcare and repealing the patriot act. as far as foreign policy is concerned there really isnt much we can do. you wanna know why? because you have alot of very wealthy muslims who dont contribute money to political campaigns, or only contribute simply to get thier picture taken so they can show off. i get an idea kaminyeh, why dont get you all those arabs who own all those liqour stores ya know in all those ghettos across america to maybe do something good with that ill gotten wealth and start contributing???

now the democrats, especially obama are against outsourcing, are for limiting even further h1b visas. as someone from the I.T. industry who has been hit hard by all this this is what affects me. even our other senator from our state, has pushed for legislation to end h1b visas altogether. another thing, is that the democrats are for middle-class tax cuts. this is important because the middle class usually takes those tax cuts and go out and spend that money which further spurs the economy and creates new high wage jobs.

[Kaminyu]

Originally Posted by GOTFIVEONIT

well right now, as a voter, im more concerned about domestic issues. such as the economy, healthcare and repealing the patriot act. as far as foreign policy is concerned there really isnt much we can do. you wanna know why? because you have alot of very wealthy muslims who dont contribute money to political campaigns, or only contribute simply to get thier picture taken so they can show off. i get an idea kaminyeh, why dont get you all those arabs who own all those liqour stores ya know in all those ghettos across america to maybe do something good with that ill gotten wealth and start contributing???

now the democrats, especially obama are against outsourcing, are for limiting even further h1b visas. as someone from the I.T. industry who has been hit hard by all this this is what affects me. even our other senator from our state, has pushed for legislation to end h1b visas altogether. another thing, is that the democrats are for middle-class tax cuts. this is important because the middle class usually takes those tax cuts and go out and spend that money which further spurs the economy and creates new high wage jobs.

Ideally, I'd vote for a Democrat, as they seem to favor the middle and lower classes more than the Republicans do. However, the best ones dropped out of the race (i.e. Mike Gravel), while the rest are just opportunistic, success-driven political careerists who don't believe in anything. On top of that, I agree with Ron Paul on a lot of issues (immigration not being one of them), such as individual freedom and liberty, non-interventionism, and having something of intrinsic value to back up the paper money that's printed, so its value stays the same. I also agree with him on getting rid of the Federal Reserve and the IRS, which for me (and everyone else) means not paying income taxes. On top of that, he plans to get rid of the CIA as well, which is good for everyone. For me, this all weighs a bit heavier than his immigration policies right now, and why I prefer him over all the other candidates.

[m_ali_qazi]

live results for new hampshire

New Hampshire Primary - Jan. 8, 2008

[displaced]

Originally Posted by m_ali_qazi

live results for new hampshire

New Hampshire Primary - Jan. 8, 2008

it's gonna be very close for obama and clinton

[IbnMardhiyah]

Originally Posted by displaced

it's gonna be very close for obama and clinton

Hillary is gone.

She had a chance earlier, but after those tears and emotional breakdown, losing her composure and all, she killed whatever chance she had left.

[GOTFIVEONIT]

Originally Posted by Kaminyu

Ideally, I'd vote for a Democrat, as they seem to favor the middle and lower classes more than the Republicans do. However, the best ones dropped out of the race (i.e. Mike Gravel), while the rest are just opportunistic, success-driven political careerists who don't believe in anything. On top of that, I agree with Ron Paul on a lot of issues (immigration not being one of them), such as individual freedom and liberty, non-interventionism, and having something of intrinsic value to back up the paper money that's printed, so its value stays the same. I also agree with him on getting rid of the Federal Reserve and the IRS, which for me (and everyone else) means not paying income taxes. On top of that, he plans to get rid of the CIA as well, which is good for everyone. For me, this all weighs a bit heavier than his immigration policies right now, and why I prefer him over all the other candidates.

honest to god i really dont care who the dems nominate, as long as they nominate someone who can beat the repugs in november. thats about all i care about at this point, just as i felt back in 04'.

btw, i think ibn murderer is stupid and a moron, just to give him a dose of own medicine.

[GOTFIVEONIT]

CNN: McCain wins New Hampshire GOP

MANCHESTER, New Hampshire (CNN) -- Sen. John McCain will win the New Hampshire GOP primary, CNN projects.

With 17 percent of precincts counted, Clinton had 40 percent of the vote to Iowa caucus winner Obama's 36 percent. Former North Carolina Sen. John Edwards had 17 percent. New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson had 4 percent, and Ohio Rep. Dennis Kucinich had 2 percent.

Edwards will finish third, CNN projects.

With 16 percent of Republican precincts reporting, McCain had 37 percent of the vote. Former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney was second with 28 percent, and former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee, the winner of last week's Iowa GOP caucuses followed with 12 percent.

Former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani had 9 percent and Texas Rep. Ron Paul had 8 percent.

Voters who supported McCain and those who supported projected runner-up Romney differed significantly on what issues they feel are most important, exit polling shows.

Forty-six percent of those who supported McCain ranked the war in Iraq the most important. Meanwhile, voters who supported Romney overwhelmingly felt immigration was the most important issue.

McCain has been a staunch supporter of the war in Iraq, but co-sponsored comprehensive immigration reform legislation that drew the ire of many conservatives in his party. The legislation failed to pass Congress. Romney has been taking a tough stance on immigration.

Voters turned out in higher-than-expected numbers Tuesday, with a sizable chunk making decisions on who to support at the last minute, according to early exit polls.

Eighteen percent of Republicans and 15 percent of Democrats said they picked their candidate on Election Day.

But the fate of the candidates could rest in the hands of New Hampshire independent voters, who make up about 40 percent of the electorate. A CNN-WMUR poll Sunday found independent voters split almost evenly between the parties this year.

The state's governor predicted a record turnout for the first-in-the-nation presidential primary as candidates zigzagged across the New England state trying to influence undecided voters.

Gov. John Lynch said he expects half a million people to vote.

The governor's prediction followed record-breaking numbers in last week's Iowa Democratic and Republican caucuses.

A wide open race in both parties and unseasonably mild temperatures could be contributing to the long lines at voting locations across the state.

"We've had unbelievable turnout for a primary," said I-Reporter Cynthia Gunn of Bow, New Hampshire. "It's a perfect voting day."

"Any other time we'd be having to shuttle a lot of people around, but people don't have a lot of excuses not to get out and vote today," said Gunn, a supporter of Obama of Illinois.

New Hampshire Deputy Secretary of State Dave Scanlan said high turnout at polling stations is forcing the New Hampshire secretary of state's office to send more ballots to some polling locations, including Hampton Falls, Portsmouth, Keene, Hudson and Pelham.

In particular, the polling places were running low on Democratic ballots, Scanlan said, but no polling station had run out.

If a station does run out, leftover absentee ballots could be used or the remaining ballots could be photocopied, initialed by a town clerk and counted by hand, Scanlan said.

The New Hampshire secretary of state's office said anyone waiting in line when the polls officially close at 8 p.m. ET will be allowed to vote.

Voting began in two hamlets just after midnight, hours before the rest of the state's polling places opened. See the New Englanders head to the polls »

The first ballots were cast in Dixville Notch, a hamlet of about 75 near the Canadian border.

People there favored McCain in the Republican primary -- he got four votes -- and Obama in the Democratic contest, who won seven votes.

Obama and McCain also won in midnight voting in Hart's Location, population 42.

In recent days, Clinton saw Obama open up a 9-point lead in polls, while McCain, whose campaign was written off as near-dead last summer, surged past Romney.

Asked Tuesday afternoon at a doughnut shop in Manchester whether he would consider himself the front-runner if he were to win in New Hampshire, Obama said, "I'm never a front-runner; I'm always the underdog."

Clinton of New York has tried to turn the tide by emphasizing her record as a "change agent," as a senator and as first lady.

She fought tears Monday as she described the stakes in the campaign at a forum with uncommitted voters in Portsmouth, calling it "one of the most important elections America has ever faced."

"This is very personal for me -- it's not just political, it's not just public," she said in response to a question about the stress of the campaign. "I see what's happening, and we have to reverse it."

Former President Clinton lashed out at the media coverage Monday night, saying Obama should be pressed more fully on Iraq and accusing the senator from Illinois of shifting his position to reflect changing attitudes on the war. Watch as the ex-president tears into Obama's record »

"And you took that speech you're now running on off your Web site in 2004. And there's no difference in your voting record and Hillary's ever since."

He added, "Give me a break. This whole thing is the biggest fairy tale I've ever seen."

Obama dismissed the former president's comments, saying "It seems like you guys have been reporting on me the entire year.

"I remember this summer when we were down 20 points, we were getting knocked around pretty good, and I didn't hear the Clinton camp complaining about how terrible the press was."

Meanwhile, Edwards sharpened his criticism of Clinton, blasting her for taking money from the pharmaceutical and defense interests the former trial lawyer routinely excoriates on the stump.

"I've never taken any money -- any money -- from a Washington lobbyist or a special interest PAC. She's continued to do that. She's taken more lobbyist money than any candidate," Edwards said Tuesday in Manchester.

On the Republican side, McCain expressed confidence he would win the Republican primary, just as he did during his first White House bid eight years ago.

"We are going to prove that you can't buy an election in the state of New Hampshire -- and we are also going to prove that negative attack ads don't work either," he said Monday in a jab at Romney, his leading rival.

Romney has poured $8 million into television ads in New Hampshire, outspending McCain 2-to-1, according to figures from TNS Media Intelligence/CMAG, CNN's consultant on TV campaign advertising.

Romney expressed confidence Tuesday that he would win the Republican primary because voters want an outsider who can fix how the federal government operates. Watch Romney he can bring about change »

Romney also spent heavily in Iowa, only to be beaten by former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee. Huckabee won the GOP Iowa caucuses with extensive support from evangelical Christian voters, but he was running third in the more secular, libertarian New Hampshire with 13 percent, Monday's poll found.

Huckabee said Tuesday he would be happy with a third place finish in New Hampshire. "That would be huge for us," he told CNN.

"Even fourth is still better than where we were even two or three weeks ago, when we were, like, in sixth place. A lot of people had said there was no point in us even coming to New Hampshire," he said.

[GOTFIVEONIT]

Clinton still holds narrow lead in early results

Posted: 08:48 PM ET

MANCHESTER, N.H. (CNN) — With 21 percent of precincts counted in the New Hampshire Democratic primary, Sen. Hillary Clinton held a 40 percent to 36 percent lead over Sen. Barack Obama, but the race was still too close to call.

CNN projected former Sen. John Edwards to finish third. CNN made the projection with 10 percent of precincts counted, basing it on reported results, exit polls and other statistical models.

Edwards had 17 percent of the vote with 21 percent of the precincts in, followed by New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson with 4 percent and Ohio Congressman Dennis Kucinich with 2 percent.

January 8, 2008

Schneider: Gender, age split keeping Democratic race close

Posted: 09:06 PM ET

(CNN) — Sen. Hillary Clinton is doing significantly better among women voters in New Hampshire than she did in Iowa. Clinton lost out to Sen. Barack Obama among women 35 percent to 30 percent in the Hawkeye State, but New Hampshire is a different story.

Forty-five percent of female Democratic primary voters picked Clinton, compared to 36 percent who went for Obama

Age is also playing a big factor. Older voters are overwhelmingly outnumbering younger voters, a proportion that is clearly benefiting Clinton. Sixty-seven percent of Democratic primary voters are over the age of 40, and they are breaking heavily for Clinton over Obama.