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  #211 (permalink)  
Old 01-31-2008, 08:29 PM
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Default debate overview

So Clinton went into more detail and repeatedly referred to her experience in politics. But overall Obama came off sounding like the better candidate. Clinton sounded like Bush with all that talk of "coercive diplomacy" and she wouldn't admit being wrong about Iraq. It seems like the crowd liked her more though, more clapping and cheering for her. I missed the beginning though. Aside from that issue they said the same things, often it sounded like Hillary repeated what Obama said just seconds earlier but she would say it in a wordier way.
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Old 01-31-2008, 08:40 PM
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Default Re: debate overview

Quote:
Originally Posted by MoonStar View Post
So Clinton went into more detail and repeatedly referred to her experience in politics. But overall Obama came off sounding like the better candidate. Clinton sounded like Bush with all that talk of "coercive diplomacy" and she wouldn't admit being wrong about Iraq. It seems like the crowd liked her more though, more clapping and cheering for her. I missed the beginning though. Aside from that issue they said the same things, often it sounded like Hillary repeated what Obama said just seconds earlier but she would say it in a wordier way.
It's no surprise, since all the candidates (except for Ron Paul) pretty much agree with each other on all the key issues. Obama has his charisma, and Clinton has feminism and her husband.

If Ron Paul doesn't win the nomination, I'm probably just going to vote for Nader again, or become apathetic, and just not care.
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  #213 (permalink)  
Old 02-01-2008, 02:57 AM
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Default Re: debate overview

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaminyu View Post
It's no surprise, since all the candidates (except for Ron Paul) pretty much agree with each other on all the key issues. Obama has his charisma, and Clinton has feminism and her husband.

If Ron Paul doesn't win the nomination, I'm probably just going to vote for Nader again, or become apathetic, and just not care.
well voting for nader is what won bush the presidency in florida. and given all that he had done, not just to muslims, but to blacks and everyone else, look at hurricane katrina, dont tell me for a second that al gore would have been the same. ya he would have had a jewish vp, but he only picked that 'eeh wabbit' sounding liberman to get the jew votes in florida from the retirees there.

but i dont blame you for being apathetic, all politicians suck and thats a fact. but one thing is for certain, we cant see another repug back into the white house again.

all these debates are useless and very well prepared for. alot of it is hot air and well frankly down right boring to begin with. these people make so many promises its all total bull.

look at the 2000 debates between bush and gore. that idiot bush sat there and said 'the united states should not be involved in nation building' when talking about in reference to kosova. then he promised more oil drilling, and searching for new deposits which was supposed to lower gas prices. at the time bill clinton had released gas on reserve to lower the gas price. bush said he was going to open up the alaska wildlife parks to oil drilling. well where was it? it was never done. i could care less about some stupid deer, i want cheaper gas, and more oil on the markets, means a lower price at the gas pump. instead this idiot went to war with iraq, and the gas price went up even higher. you know why? because instability in the middle east means higher oil prices, and that means more profit for oilmen like bush, cheney and haliburton.
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Old 02-01-2008, 02:59 AM
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Default Re: Official Election 2008 thread

so an automated phone poll called me about the repug primary. i voted for ron paul in the poll.
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Old 02-01-2008, 03:06 AM
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Default Re: Official Election 2008 thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhDGirl View Post
And sexist since he said he won't vote for Hilary because she's a woman.
there are plenty of men in america who find her downright frightening because she is such a hardcore feminist. and the repugs will tag her quickly with the feminazi label if she becomes the nominee. and this will play down huge in the south, and in battle ground states, such as in southern ohio. its no wonder that most men voting in the democratic primary, voted for barack obama, and not hillary. and forget about her policies, look at the way she dominates her husband. ooh ya that sure will play well with all those millions of divorced men robbed in divorce court, and stuck paying alimony checks every month.
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Old 02-01-2008, 06:27 AM
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Default Re: Official Election 2008 thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by GOTFIVEONIT View Post
there are plenty of men in america who find her downright frightening because she is such a hardcore feminist. and the repugs will tag her quickly with the feminazi label if she becomes the nominee. and this will play down huge in the south, and in battle ground states, such as in southern ohio. its no wonder that most men voting in the democratic primary, voted for barack obama, and not hillary. and forget about her policies, look at the way she dominates her husband. ooh ya that sure will play well with all those millions of divorced men robbed in divorce court, and stuck paying alimony checks every month.
One thing I like about you GotFive, is that you are consistent.
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  #217 (permalink)  
Old 02-01-2008, 07:57 AM
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Default Re: debate overview

Quote:
Originally Posted by GOTFIVEONIT View Post
well voting for nader is what won bush the presidency in florida. and given all that he had done, not just to muslims, but to blacks and everyone else, look at hurricane katrina, dont tell me for a second that al gore would have been the same. ya he would have had a jewish vp, but he only picked that 'eeh wabbit' sounding liberman to get the jew votes in florida from the retirees there.
I doubt Al Gore would have lasted, with Lieberman as his VP anyway.

Quote:
but i dont blame you for being apathetic, all politicians suck and thats a fact. but one thing is for certain, we cant see another repug back into the white house again.
Yes. Any Democrat candidate is better than most of the Republican ones (except for Ron Paul).

Quote:
all these debates are useless and very well prepared for. alot of it is hot air and well frankly down right boring to begin with. these people make so many promises its all total bull.

look at the 2000 debates between bush and gore. that idiot bush sat there and said 'the united states should not be involved in nation building' when talking about in reference to kosova. then he promised more oil drilling, and searching for new deposits which was supposed to lower gas prices. at the time bill clinton had released gas on reserve to lower the gas price. bush said he was going to open up the alaska wildlife parks to oil drilling. well where was it? it was never done. i could care less about some stupid deer, i want cheaper gas, and more oil on the markets, means a lower price at the gas pump. instead this idiot went to war with iraq, and the gas price went up even higher. you know why? because instability in the middle east means higher oil prices, and that means more profit for oilmen like bush, cheney and haliburton.
I think Al Gore would've been the same way, with not drilling over there in Alaska.

Quote:
so an automated phone poll called me about the repug primary. i voted for ron paul in the poll.
Good.
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  #218 (permalink)  
Old 02-01-2008, 09:52 AM
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Default Re: Official Election 2008 thread

could it be that every antiwar candidate has been systematically excluded from public discourse?

Vote Green.
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Old 02-01-2008, 09:57 AM
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Default Re: Official Election 2008 thread

World is watching US presidential race


By WILLIAM J. KOLE, Associated Press Writer


Germans are gaga over Barack Obama. He's got Japan pretty jazzed, too, along with Hillary Rodham Clinton. Russia's leaders, not so much: They prefer a Republican — as long as it's not Kremlin critic John McCain.


And Mexico's president? He doesn't have much use for any of them.

America's extraordinary presidential campaign has captivated politicians and ordinary people around the globe. With so much at stake in the race for the White House, the world is watching with an intensity that hasn't been seen since the Clinton era began in 1992.

After eight years of President Bush, the latest mantra in U.S. politics — "transformational change" — is resonating across the rest of a planet desperate for a fresh start.

"They feel there's a real chance to work with the U.S.," said Julianne Smith, a senior fellow at the Washington-based Center for Strategic and International Studies. "America's image in the world is really on the line."

Non-Americans, she said, are looking for someone who can "restore faith in the United States."

Obama, perhaps not surprisingly, is generating most of the buzz abroad.

"Der schwarze Kennedy," some German admirers are calling him: "The black JFK."

"He is young, charming and sexy!" the mass-circulation newspaper Bild gushed. "Obama is now the ideal projection screen for hopes and expectations in Europe" and the U.S. alike, said Christian Hacke, a professor at the University of Bonn.

"I like him. I like his ideas, his attitude, his appearance. I prefer him to Hillary Clinton, who is more artificial," said Eva Berto, a Rome doctor who thinks Obama would bring a new approach to the crisis in Iraq and the nuclear standoff with Iran.

Japanese media are closely tracking both Obama and the woman they refer to simply as "Hillary," and focusing on the possibility that either could make history.

"The idea since the country's founding — 'You can't become president if you're not a white man' — has already been destroyed," the Mainichi newspaper said in an editorial.

But in Europe, where some see Obama as untested, support for Clinton is widespread, and nostalgia for her husband's charisma runs deep. When scandals rocked the Clinton White House, most Europeans responded with a Gallic shrug.

"Nobody in Europe ever took Bill Clinton's problems in office seriously," said Patrick Dunleavy, a political scientist at the London School of Economics. "Nobody could ever understand why Americans were so upset. Bill Clinton was always a fantastic presence in Europe."

The Republican presidential hopefuls, by contrast, are not highly regarded in Europe: Mitt Romney and Mike Huckabee are seen as too religious, and the 71-year-old McCain as too old.

To Britons, history's most popular postwar presidents were Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton because of their perceived levelheadedness and intelligence, said Dunleavy. The most despised? President Bush and Ronald Reagan "because they were seen as erratic and unpredictable," he said.

Yet Democrats don't rule the entire world of public opinion.

Saad al-Hadithi, a political analyst in Baghdad, contends the Republican candidates are more committed to Iraq and have a better approach.

"They show more support to the political progress and to combating terrorist groups in Iraq," he said. "The Democrats, especially Hillary Clinton, are calling for the withdrawal of U.S. forces, but they are not offering an alternative. Such a withdrawal while the Iraqi security forces are still weak will lead to disastrous results."

Russia's leaders also consider Republicans more pragmatic, said Nkolai Petrov, an analyst with the Carnegie Moscow Center.

But the Kremlin, Petrov said, would likely have "serious concerns" if McCain wins the Republican nomination because of the Arizona senator's harsh and persistent criticism of Vladimir Putin's autocratic government.

Others in Russia are drawn to the lively U.S. campaign if only because it's such a sharp contrast to Moscow's tightly choreographed March 2 presidential election — a contest that Putin's favored successor, Dmitry Medvedev, is seen as certain to win.

Africans naturally gravitate toward Obama, whose father was from Kenya.

Israelis, though, seem to prefer Hillary Clinton — even though Obama has voiced support for key Israeli demands in peace talks with the Palestinians — because of her experience and the backing Bill Clinton gave to the Jewish state during his two terms as president.

Amid the raging debate over immigration, Mexicans arguably have more at stake in the U.S. election than any other nation. But President Felipe Calderon doesn't think very highly of any of the candidates.

"The only theme," he declared in December, "is to compete to see who can be the most swaggering, macho and anti-Mexican."

In the post-Bush era, the bottom line is blunt and simple, Dunleavy said.

"People all around the world are pretty worried," he said. "They want a president who will restore a kind of U.S. legitimacy in the world."


___________________________________


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  #220 (permalink)  
Old 02-01-2008, 11:19 AM
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Default Re: debate overview

Quote:
Originally Posted by sak01 View Post
Style over content. Personality over policies. Spin over honesty.

Same thing goes on in the UK. As the article I posted points out, you have a major flaw in that the media dictates who the public should choose from. A candidate has next to no chance without air time.

Some people might say that they can only give airtime to candidates who have at least a chance of winning. But RP has triple the delegates of Giuliani so far(6 to 2 is not much i know) so why should the latter get more attention? Add to this the fact RP has the phenomenon of record breaking donations(in 24 hrs) and being crowned president of the internet, it begs a big question as to what the media is playing at.

I'm not a fan of Ron Paul. I'm just pointing to one of many major flaws in the current race. There is something smelly in the Great American Democracy.
yeah it's not like he had a shortage of funds to run ads. Even the NY Times endorsed McCain (what is the world coming to) and you rarely see any mention of Paul. And wasn't he excluded from one of the debates even though he had more votes than Giuliani? That's messed up.

anyway, Ron Paul seems like the lesser evil of the republicans and Obama in the democrats. But McCain seems to be in the lead and probably Hillary in the Dems. None of the candidates are ideal. But Obama doesn't have anything too shady in his record and he was against the war so I'll probably vote for him. I don't like Hillary but she'd be way better than McCain.
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Old 02-01-2008, 12:38 PM
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Default Re: debate overview

Quote:
Originally Posted by sak01 View Post
And reading this:

we can highlight another major flaw in the American political system. The well known(at least sub-consciously) fact that anyone who questions America's unqualifed support for Israel has almost certainly committed political suicide.
Ron Paul wants to end all aid to Israel, and he's still pretty successful in his political career considering that. This is proof that you don't have to pander to AIPAC when you're a politician. My guess is that the only reason people do, is because they're either blackmailed into doing so, or they work for them.
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  #222 (permalink)  
Old 02-01-2008, 01:54 PM
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Default Re: debate overview

Quote:
Originally Posted by sak01 View Post

Whoever people vote for, it's important to be aware of the fundamental flaws in the election process. I'm not talking about you specifically but it helps to know what to expect and have a better idea of the status of your vote in the grand scheme of things.

.
Between the delegates (which I still don't really understand what they do) and electoral college and faulty voting machines I have no idea whether my vote makes much of a difference, or if a group of powerful old white men just pick the next president, so I guess I vote with the hope that if there is some chance that my vote matters, I did something at least.
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Old 02-02-2008, 11:20 AM
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Default Re: Official Election 2008 thread

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Originally Posted by Kaminyu View Post
Most people probably have no idea, but a growing number of them do. That's why Ron Paul is such a popular candidate, despite their attempts to downplay and censor him, as well as why he's still in the race.
Have you ever thought that maybe the reason why he doesn't have a chance as president is because people generally think his policies are too far out and not because he's being 'censored'?
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Old 02-02-2008, 11:27 AM
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Default Re: Official Election 2008 thread

the very suggestion is laughable. I laugh at it HAHAHA
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