[Jamroll]

Originally Posted by GOTFIVEONIT

no way they would. americans hate taxes. thats why repugs always win elections. the best solution would be to start a national health insurance policy that people can pay into, kinda what goes on europe. and doctors need to be paid less than the crazy prices that they charge right now. the a.m.a. or the american medical assocation of doctors is responsible for this, that mossad defends so passionatly.

doctors are in cahoots with the insurance companies and are nothing more than scumbags! the way they act, is like a fireman refusing to hose down your burning house till you pay him. thats like the garbage man refusing to pick up your garbage and let it pile up, till you pay him. ooh ya and he is gonna charge you a couple of grand to do that work in the process. thats why doctors are nothing more than scumbags.

Well, I'm not sure of the in's and out's of the American system in detail, but I think it's the system that seems to be at fault rather than the doctors. Doctors perform a very valuable service to society, and they deserve to be paid accordingly. You saw yourself in that movie, that the British doctor cited that he got paid £85k (about US$170k) basic. He has a million dollar home in a nice area of London, and drives a top of the range Audi. The more he helped patients and referred them for appropriate care, the more he got. That particular doctor said he had an annual salary of about £100k (about US$200k). That gets paid by his employer, the NHS, and the NHS receive their funding from the government. The government pays for it through general taxation.

I saw some talk in the thread about communism. There's no doubt that the US has some of the best medical facilities in the world. But what good is that if that high-quality advanced medical care is only available to the small proportion that can afford it? There's no way the UK can be accused of being communist in the slightest, but I do wonder why "communism" is still such a dirty word in the US? The Cold War ended years ago.

[Jamroll]

Originally Posted by MossadConspiracy

salam

bro you should know that the UK system will probably be privatized in your lifetime. Probably not to the extent that it is privatized in America, because that does have alot of problems. Its interesting because the same factors that are pushing the United States to adopt more government intervention in healthcare are driving European countries to privatize. Namely, increasing healthcare costs because of an aging population and high utilization. The problem of an old population is especially acute in European countries where the old might even outnumber the tax-paying young in the next few decades.

ws

Sadly, I think you're probably right. Certainly trends seem to be pointing in that direction. A lot of professionals have access to private medical insurance as part of their benefits package paid for by their employer. And I don't think there's anything wrong with that. If you have more means, you should have the choice for private medical care. But for those who can't afford it, which is the majority of the population, they should have access to quality medical care, and they shouldn't be refused to be treated because of lack of insurance, especially in ER situations.

I made use of it in my last job, and it's nice to know that it's there, should the need arise. I'm not sure of how it compares to the US, but the only difference of note, in my experience was that with the private medical insurance I was able to get access to tests and consultations much quicker than on the general NHS. e.g. on private I could have an MRI appointment the next day, or within the next week, whereas on the NHS I'd have to wait a couple of months.

[MossadConspiracy]

Originally Posted by Jamroll

Well, I'm not sure of the in's and out's of the American system in detail, but I think it's the system that seems to be at fault rather than the doctors. Doctors perform a very valuable service to society, and they deserve to be paid accordingly. You saw yourself in that movie, that the British doctor cited that he got paid £85k (about US$170k) basic. He has a million dollar home in a nice area of London, and drives a top of the range Audi. The more he helped patients and referred them for appropriate care, the more he got. That particular doctor said he had an annual salary of about £100k (about US$200k). That gets paid by his employer, the NHS, and the NHS receive their funding from the government. The government pays for it through general taxation.

I saw some talk in the thread about communism. There's no doubt that the US has some of the best medical facilities in the world. But what good is that if that high-quality advanced medical care is only available to the small proportion that can afford it? There's no way the UK can be accused of being communist in the slightest, but I do wonder why "communism" is still such a dirty word in the US? The Cold War ended years ago.

salam

NHS doctors in primary care (psychiatry, family medicine, internal medicine, etc) make more money than American doctors in the same fields. The issue isnt about how much money doctors make in one system versus another, thats just a dumb argument by people who hate doctors or who have some vendetta against them (for taking all the girls).

Also, you need to understand that most Americans are covered, either by private insurance from their employers, by medicaid, or by medicare. A tiny number buy their own insurance. And most of the best hospitals in America, which are the best in the world, provide care to lots of medicaid patients who are poor, including homeless people and drug addicts with HIV and so on. Johns Hopkins and Harvard and Columbia and so on are all hospitals that provide care to medicaid patients along with private patients. The idea that good care is only available to a small proportion of Americans is an oversimplification and a myth. Actually, the largest segment of Americans is covered by private insurance who receive that good care that you mentioned.

The issue is that some proportion of Americans is uninsured and underinsured (I think estimates go as high as 25% when you include under-insured). The reason there are alot of uninsured people is that healthcare costs are extremely high because of utilization and prescription drugs and so on, and private employers arent able to shoulder the burden the way that they used to. The main question that American politicians and American doctors and American voters should be asking is how to extend healthcare access in America to as many people as possible. Not how to punish doctors or how to import a healthcare system developed by lenin or any other radical or stupid solution. We have the best healthcare in the world here, theres no need to destroy it. By the way, Mitt Romney signed into law a model of healthcare access in Massachusetts that is a big component of proposals for both Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama. Most democrats running have plans for universal access

ws

[GOTFIVEONIT]

for anyone in chicago, in cook county interested in early voting for the primaries here are the sites. i highlighted in red the towns with a large Muslim population, mostly arab and desi.

for downtown chicago:

*CLERK’S MAIN OFFICE*
(open Martin Luther King, Jr. Day)
69 W. Washington St. – CL 25
Chicago, IL 60602
Mon.-Fri.: 8:30 a.m. to 5 p.m.
Sat. and Sun.: 9 a.m. to noon

2008 FEBRUARY PRESIDENTIAL PRIMARY

ELECTION EARLY VOTING SITES

ONLY the sites denoted by *asterisks* will open on Monday, January 21st. Sites which are marked by asterisks will be open from 8:30 am until 5:00 pm. In observance of Martin Luther King, Jr. Day, ALL OTHER SITES WILL BE CLOSED.

1. *Alsip Village Hall*
(open Martin Luther King, Jr. Day)
4500 W. 123rd St.
Alsip, IL 60803
Mon.-Fri: 8:30 a.m. to 5 p.m.
Saturday: 9 a.m. to noon.

2. *Barrington Township Hall*
(open Martin Luther King, Jr. Day)
602 S. Hough St.
Barrington, IL 60010
Mon.-Fri: 8:30 a.m. to 5 p.m.
Saturday: 9 a.m. to noon.

3. *Bellwood Village Hall*
(open Martin Luther King, Jr. Day)
3200 Washington Blvd.
Bellwood, IL 60104
Mon.-Fri: 8:30 a.m. to 5 p.m.
Saturday: 9 a.m. to noon.

4. Berwyn City Hall
(closed Martin Luther King, Jr. Day)
6700 W. 26th St.
Berwyn, IL 60402
Mon.-Fri: 8:30 a.m. to 5 p.m.
Saturday: 9 a.m. to noon.

5. *Blue Island Village Hall*
(open Martin Luther King, Jr. Day)
East Building
2434 Vermont St.
Blue Island, IL 60406
Mon.-Fri: 8:30 a.m. to 5 p.m.
Saturday: 9 a.m. to noon.

6. *Burnham Village Hall*
(open Martin Luther King, Jr. Day)
14450 Manistee Ave.
Burnham, IL 60633
Mon.-Fri: 8:30 a.m. to 5 p.m.
Saturday: 9 a.m. to noon.

7. Chicago Heights City Hall
(closed Martin Luther King, Jr. Day)
1601 Chicago Rd.
Chicago, Heights, IL 60411
Mon.-Fri: 8:30 a.m. to 5 p.m.
Saturday: 9 a.m. to noon.

8. *Cicero PSO Building*
(open Martin Luther King, Jr. Day)
5410 W. 34th St.
Cicero, IL 60804
Mon.-Fri: 8:30 a.m. to 5 p.m.
Sat. and Sun.: 9 a.m. to noon.

9. *Cicero Town Hall*
(open Martin Luther King, Jr. Day)
4937 W. 25th St.
Cicero, IL 60804
Mon.-Fri: 8:30 a.m. to 5 p.m.
Sat. and Sun.: 9 a.m. to noon.

10. Des Plaines City Hall
(closed Martin Luther King, Jr. Day)
1420 Miner St.
Des Plaines, IL 60016
Mon.-Fri: 8:30 a.m. to 5 p.m.
Saturday: 9 a.m. to noon.

11. *Elk Grove Village*
(open Martin Luther King, Jr. Day)
901 Wellington Ave.
Elk Grove, IL 60007
Mon.-Fri: 8:30 a.m. to 5 p.m.
Saturday: 9 a.m. to noon.

12. Elmwood Park Village Hall
(closed Martin Luther King, Jr. Day)
11 Conti Pkwy.
Elmwood Park, IL 60707
Mon.-Fri: 8:30 a.m. to 5 p.m.
Saturday: 9 a.m. to noon.

13. *Evanston Civic Center*
(open Martin Luther King, Jr. Day)
2100 Ridge Ave.
Evanston, IL 60201
Mon.-Fri: 8:30 a.m. to 5 p.m.
Saturday: 9 a.m. to noon.

14. *Glenview Village Hall*
(open Martin Luther King, Jr. Day)
1225 Waukegan Rd.
Glenview, IL 60025
Mon.-Fri: 8:30 a.m. to 5 p.m.
Saturday: 9 a.m. to noon.

15. *City of Harvey*
(open Martin Luther King, Jr. Day)
15320 Broadway Ave.
Harvey, IL 60426
Mon.-Fri: 8:30 a.m. to 5 p.m.
Saturday: 9 a.m. to noon.

16. *Hoffman Estates Village Hall*
(open Martin Luther King, Jr. Day)
1900 Hassell Rd.
Hoffman Estates, IL 60169
Mon.-Fri: 8:30 a.m. to 5 p.m.
Saturday: 9 a.m. to noon.

17. *Lemont Library District*
(open Martin Luther King, Jr. Day)
50 E. Wend St.
Lemont, IL 60439
Mon.-Fri: 8:30 a.m. to 5 p.m.
Saturday: 9 a.m. to noon.

18. *Lyons Township Hall*
(open Martin Luther King, Jr. Day)
6404 Joliet Rd.
Countryside, IL 60525
Mon.-Fri: 8:30 a.m. to 5 p.m.
Saturday: 9 a.m. to noon.

19. *Matteson Village Hall*
(open Martin Luther King, Jr. Day)
4900 Village Cmn.
Matteson, IL 60443
Mon.-Fri: 8:30 a.m. to 5 p.m.
Saturday: 9 a.m. to noon.

20. *Melrose Park Village Hall*
(open Martin Luther King, Jr. Day)
1000 N. 25th Ave.
Melrose Park, IL 60160
Mon.-Fri: 8:30 a.m. to 5 p.m.
Saturday: 9 a.m. to noon.

21. *Morton Grove Village Hall*
(open Martin Luther King, Jr. Day)
6101 Capulina
Morton Grove, IL 60053
Mon.-Fri: 8:30 a.m. to 5 p.m.
Saturday: 9 a.m. to noon.

22. *Norridge Village Hall*
(open Martin Luther King, Jr. Day)
4000 N. Olcott Ave.
Norridge, IL 60706
Mon.-Fri: 8:30 a.m. to 5 p.m.
Saturday: 9 a.m. to noon.

23. *Northbrook Village Hall*
(open Martin Luther King, Jr. Day)
1225 Cedar Ln.
Northbrook, IL 60062
Mon.-Fri: 8:30 a.m. to 5 p.m.
Saturday: 9 a.m. to noon.

24. *Oak Forest City Hall*
(open Martin Luther King, Jr. Day)
15440 S. Central Ave.
Oak Forest, IL 60452
Mon.-Fri: 8:30 a.m. to 5 p.m.
Saturday: 9 a.m. to noon.

25. Oak Lawn Village Hall
(closed Martin Luther King, Jr. Day)
9446 S. Raymond Ave.
Oak Lawn, IL 60453
Mon.-Fri: 8:30 a.m. to 5 p.m.
Saturday: 9 a.m. to noon.

26. *Oak Park Village Hall*
(open Martin Luther King, Jr. Day)
123 Madison St.
Oak Park, IL 60302
Mon.-Fri: 8:30 a.m. to 5 p.m.
Saturday: 9 a.m. to noon.

27. *Orland Park Village Hall*
(open Martin Luther King, Jr. Day)
14700 Ravinia Ave.
Orland Park, IL 60462
Mon.-Fri: 8:30 a.m. to 5 p.m.
Saturday: 9 a.m. to noon.

28. Palatine Village Hall
(closed Martin Luther King, Jr. Day)
200 E. Wood St.
Palatine, IL 60067
Mon.-Fri: 8:30 a.m. to 5 p.m.

29. Palos Heights Village Hall
(closed Martin Luther King, Jr. Day)
7607 W. College Dr.
Palos Heights, IL 60463
Mon.-Fri: 8:30 a.m. to 5 p.m.
Saturday: 9 a.m. to noon.

30. *Park Forest Village Hall*
(open Martin Luther King, Jr. Day)
350 Victory Blvd.
Park Forest, IL 60466
Mon.-Fri: 8:30 a.m. to 5 p.m.
Saturday: 9 a.m. to noon.

31. *Park Ridge Village Hall*
(open Martin Luther King, Jr. Day)
505 Butler Pl.
Park Ridge, IL 60068
Mon.-Fri: 8:30 a.m. to 5 p.m.
Saturday: 9 a.m. to noon.

32. *Schaumburg Public Library*
(open Martin Luther King, Jr. Day)
130 S. Roselle Rd.
Schaumburg, IL 60193
Mon.-Fri: 8:30 a.m. to 5 p.m.
Saturday: 9 a.m. to noon.

33. *Skokie Village Hall*
(open Martin Luther King, Jr. Day)
5127 Oakton St.
Skokie, IL 60077
Mon.-Fri: 8:30 a.m. to 5 p.m.
Sat. and Sun.: 9 a.m. to noon.

34. South Holland Village Hall
(closed Martin Luther King, Jr. Day)
16226 Wausau
South Holland, IL 60473
Mon.-Fri: 8:30 a.m. to 5 p.m.
Saturday: 9 a.m. to noon.

35. *Stickney-Forest View Public*
Library (open Martin Luther King, Jr. Day)
6800 W. 43rd St.
Stickney, IL 60402
Mon.-Fri: 8:30 a.m. to 5 p.m.
Saturday: 9 a.m. to noon.

36. *Streamwood Village Hall*
(open Martin Luther King, Jr. Day)
301 E. Irving Park Rd.
Streamwood, IL 60107
Mon.-Fri: 8:30 a.m. to 5 p.m.
Saturday: 9 a.m. to noon.

37. *Wheeling Township Hall*
(open Martin Luther King, Jr. Day)
1616 N. Arlington Heights Rd.
Arlington Heights, IL 60004
Mon.-Fri: 8:30 a.m. to 5 p.m.
Sat. and Sun.: 9 a.m. to noon.

38. *Wilmette Village Hall*
(open Martin Luther King, Jr. Day)
1200 Wilmette Ave.
Wilmette, IL 60091
Mon.-Fri: 8:30 a.m. to 5 p.m.
Saturday: 9 a.m. to noon.

CLERK’S SATELLITE OFFICES

39. *Bridgeview Courthouse*
(open Martin Luther King, Jr. Day)
10220 S. 76th Ave. – Rm. 238
Bridgeview, IL
Mon.-Fri.: 8:30 a.m. to 5 p.m.
Sat. and Sun.: 9 a.m. to noon

40. *Markham Courthouse*
(open Martin Luther King, Jr. Day)
16501 S. Kedzie Ave. – Rm. 238
Markham, IL 60471
Mon.-Fri.: 8:30 a.m. to 5 p.m.
Sat. and Sun.: 9 a.m. to noon

41. *Maywood Courthouse*
(open Martin Luther King, Jr. Day)
1311 Maybrook Sq. – Rm. 109
Maywood, IL 60156
Mon.-Fri.: 8:30 a.m. to 5 p.m.
Sat. and Sun.: 9 a.m. to noon

42. *Rolling Meadows Courthouse*
(open Martin Luther King, Jr. Day)
2121 Euclid Ave. – Rm. 238
Rolling Meadows, IL 60008
Mon.-Fri.: 8:30 a.m. to 5 p.m.
Sat. and Sun.: 9 a.m. to noon

43. *Skokie Courthouse*
(open Martin Luther King, Jr. Day)
5600 W. Old Orchard Rd. – Rm 149
Skokie, IL 60076
Mon.-Fri.: 8:30 a.m. to 5 p.m.
Sat. and Sun.: 9 a.m. to noon

44. *CLERK’S MAIN OFFICE*
(open Martin Luther King, Jr. Day)
69 W. Washington St. – CL 25
Chicago, IL 60602
Mon.-Fri.: 8:30 a.m. to 5 p.m.
Sat. and Sun.: 9 a.m. to noon

[MossadConspiracy]

Originally Posted by Jamroll

Sadly, I think you're probably right. Certainly trends seem to be pointing in that direction. A lot of professionals have access to private medical insurance as part of their benefits package paid for by their employer. And I don't think there's anything wrong with that. If you have more means, you should have the choice for private medical care. But for those who can't afford it, which is the majority of the population, they should have access to quality medical care, and they shouldn't be refused to be treated because of lack of insurance, especially in ER situations.

I made use of it in my last job, and it's nice to know that it's there, should the need arise. I'm not sure of how it compares to the US, but the only difference of note, in my experience was that with the private medical insurance I was able to get access to tests and consultations much quicker than on the general NHS. e.g. on private I could have an MRI appointment the next day, or within the next week, whereas on the NHS I'd have to wait a couple of months.

publicly administered healthcare is too inefficient. I'm sure you guys will continue to have universal coverage for decades because as voters you will never allow anything else, but the management of healthcare will have to be turned over to private firms who will adopt HMO-type models to make sure that costs are kept to the bare minimum. Its not necessarily a bad thing, as long as quality of care doesnt suffer. You guys might have to start paying small co-pays at some point as a disincentive

[GOTFIVEONIT]

DuPage County, Illinois
Early Voting Locations and Hours

(again towns with large Muslim populations, mostly desi and arab, highlited in red)

For the February 5, 2008, General Primary Election
Early Voting is available January 14 through January 31

PLEASE NOTE: These locations will also be available for Absentee Voting on February 1 and February 2, 2008.

These locations are 100% compliant with the Americans with Disabilities Act.

LOCATION ADDRESS ROOM HOURS

Stratford Square Mall 152 Stratford Square
Bloomingdale
Lower Level
Next to Carson Pirie Scott
Monday thru Friday - 10:00 am to 7:00 pm
Saturday - 10:00 am to 3:00 pm
Sunday - 11:00 am to 3:00 pm

Addison Township Office 401 N Addison Rd
Addison Gym
Monday, Wednesday, & Friday - 8:30 am to 4:00 pm
Tuesday & Thursday - 8:30 am to 7:00 pm
Saturday - 9:00 am to 1:00 pm

DuPage County
Election Commission
421 N County Farm Rd
Wheaton Office Foyer
Monday thru Friday - 8:00 am to 4:30 pm
Saturday - 9:00 am to 1:00 pm
Sunday - 9:00 am to 1:00 pm

Yorktown Center Mall
Highland Ave at
Butterfield Road
Lombard
West Entrance 2
Next to USPS
Monday thru Friday – 10:00 am to 7:00 pm
Saturday – 10:00 am to 3:00 pm
Sunday – 11:00 am to 3:00 pm

Naperville Municipal
Center
400 S Eagle Street
Naperville Meeting Room A Monday thru Friday - 8:30 am to 4:30 pm
Saturday - 9:00 am to Noon

Downers Grove
Village Hall
801 Burlington Ave.
Downers Grove Committee Room
Monday, Wednesday, Thursday & Friday - 8:00 am to 4:30 pm
Tuesday - 8:00 am to 7:00 pm
Saturday - 8:00 am to 1:00 pm

[GOTFIVEONIT]

Originally Posted by Jamroll

Well, I'm not sure of the in's and out's of the American system in detail, but I think it's the system that seems to be at fault rather than the doctors. Doctors perform a very valuable service to society, and they deserve to be paid accordingly. You saw yourself in that movie, that the British doctor cited that he got paid £85k (about US$170k) basic. He has a million dollar home in a nice area of London, and drives a top of the range Audi. The more he helped patients and referred them for appropriate care, the more he got. That particular doctor said he had an annual salary of about £100k (about US$200k). That gets paid by his employer, the NHS, and the NHS receive their funding from the government. The government pays for it through general taxation.

I saw some talk in the thread about communism. There's no doubt that the US has some of the best medical facilities in the world. But what good is that if that high-quality advanced medical care is only available to the small proportion that can afford it? There's no way the UK can be accused of being communist in the slightest, but I do wonder why "communism" is still such a dirty word in the US? The Cold War ended years ago.

you know what, if people could afford treatement, i wouldnt have a problem with how much doctors get paid. if a guy owns his own successful plumbing company, with a couple of employees, i would applaud him, so long as if he provides a service at a reasonable price. not show up at your house and demand six grand to stop the pipes from over flowing and flooding your house. and with the baby boomers now retiring and getting old, theres a butt load of patients that these doctors will have, and can easily charge a resonable amount for thier services and still walk away with a ton of cash.

in fact i applaud those doctors who chose to set up thier own private clinics and charge very little for thier services. this is peoples health we are talking about here, a person shouldnt have to decide if he lives or dies because some greedy doctor demands too much money to treat him! thats why doctors are nothing more than scumbags. even a lawyer is better then they are. at least you get a public defender. at least they will save you butt when your in trouble.

[MossadConspiracy]

jamroll

one last thing bro, its illegal for emergency rooms to deny care to anybody. I'm sure the same law exists in britain, its probably universal

ws

[GOTFIVEONIT]

Originally Posted by MossadConspiracy

jamroll

one last thing bro, its illegal for emergency rooms to deny care to anybody. I'm sure the same law exists in britain, its probably universal

ws

you keep saying that, thats why they showed in the movie people with no health insurance, being drugged up, and then dropped off on the street in cabs.

[MossadConspiracy]

as far as i remember from that crappy movie, those patients were either discharged out of inpatient units and sent to shelters, or treated in the ER then sent away instead of being admitted. They werent turned away at an ER which is illegal like I've been saying. Those stories were pretty messed up and they show us why medicaid really needs to start covering long-term care more generously. Anyway, I'm sure that hospitals have refused to treat people at ER's but when they do it they are breaking the law and exposing themselves to very serious trouble. Sometimes people and institutions commit crimes, it happens.

Also, you shouldnt get all your information about a topic from a movie, of all sources. if you're interested in the healthcare industry why not read a book about it, i guarantee you'll learn much more

[RestlessSoul]

I should first state that I couldn't care less about wealth. my family definitely does not make six figures by any means, and we are exceptionally satisfied with our lives and could not ask for more, so don't accuse me of being greedy for the following arguments. with that said:

Originally Posted by GOTFIVEONIT

doctors who give out denials get bonuses from the hmo's! i worked in a hmo once. i saw checks upon checks being sent out to doctors and it was ridiculous! the amounts in these checks were just plain disgusting. its pure simple greed and nothing more and that tooa t the expense of peoples health. even when you are insured you still dont get covered. whats a matter a doctor wont take a patient in for a small amount? its not theres a shortage of supply for sick patients. and that's the problem, no competition, no free market system. its almost like a cartel. maybe doctors should be forced to start competing over prices, and maybe then health care costs will go down. why dont doctors volunteer part time at clinics? but they wont, you know why, because they prey on human misery and nothing more. so you can accuse me of whatever you want, i have already stated my reasons, which are many. maybe when people can afford to get treatement, ill start to have a lil more respect for the profession.
SICKO Part 1
SICKO Part 2

I can name several clinics even here in chicago where doctors offer their services to the uninsured, and treat patients with just as much respect as paying patients. desi doctors routinely organize free health fairs at the masajids around here, and there is even a huge list of providers who have agreed to take indigent patients at probably below the cost of overhead.

Originally Posted by GOTFIVEONIT

doctors are in cahoots with the insurance companies and are nothing more than scumbags! the way they act, is like a fireman refusing to hose down your burning house till you pay him. thats like the garbage man refusing to pick up your garbage and let it pile up, till you pay him. ooh ya and he is gonna charge you a couple of grand to do that work in the process. thats why doctors are nothing more than scumbags.

you keep saying doctors are in cahoots with insurance carriers. sure some are, but they are few and are considered traitors because they often deny claims or tests that the patient's physician orders. the vast majority of physicans on the other hand, routinely have to fight insurance companies who deny their patients' claims for necessary treatment. in an effort to contain costs of treatment (and thus profits), the HMO second guesses the decisions the doctor makes in treating the patient. doctors often decry this loss of autonomy and having other people determine their patient's care. I would hardly call that "in cahoots."

Originally Posted by GOTFIVEONIT

in fact i applaud those doctors who chose to set up thier own private clinics and charge very little for thier services. this is peoples health we are talking about here, a person shouldnt have to decide if he lives or dies because some greedy doctor demands too much money to treat him! thats why doctors are nothing more than scumbags. even a lawyer is better then they are. at least you get a public defender. at least they will save you butt when your in trouble.

it seems like you want the Ghareeb Nawaz of health clinics. one thing you have to realize is that some people are cheap. they make an uproar about a $10 co-pay, but have no qualms about paying the monthly cell phone bill, buying a nicer car, or getting the latest nike shoes. mechanics charge over $50 just to diagnose your car (regardless of how much time it takes), yet most people pay because that comes with the territory of owning a car. why complain then when a doctor charges you for a routine visit? is your health less important than your car? i'll leave whether $50 is a fair price up for debate, but you (hopefully) get the point.

Originally Posted by GOTFIVEONIT

you keep saying that, thats why they showed in the movie people with no health insurance, being drugged up, and then dropped off on the street in cabs.

one dramatic example in a movie is not a good representation of the whole system. if you were conducting a survey, would you just ask one person and conclude you knew everything?

google EMTLA and educate yourself on the law. hospitals can transfer uninsured/self-pay patients to public hospitals only after they've been medically stabilized.

[RestlessSoul]

and in terms of a free market, I think U.S. medical care is about to rapidly change. midlevel providers like nurse practitioners and physician assistants are frequently being employed independently to diagnose patients and prescribe drugs for common illnesses. you can find them in clinics inside walgreens and walmart.

I believe they are lobbying to get reimbursed by insurance just as much as physicians do for the same services. right now though, they get paid less because they are considered as having less medical knowledge than physicians. thus, they are considered a cheaper alternative to doctors and a way to lower costs.

primary care doctors, of course, are worried about such clinics because patients will go to these clinics with short times and cheaper rates. either the doctor has to lower his costs to compete or position himself as one with more knowledge and advertise that only he or she is a * real * physician.

the popularity of these clinics however and the fact that medical students as a whole are subspecializing makes me think that U.S. primary care will soon be handled completely by midlevels while board-certified doctors will act as the specialists utilized for advanced care when needed. Doing primary care as a physician is a sinking boat.