[Kona_Silat]

Originally Posted by SaidAbdullahofDarfur

They come from Idol worship, because obviously modern Christians don't care if they worship Apollo....



Yet again the Arrogant howl of assimilation.

Muslims don't enjoin in pagan practices, we stay unique to our book, that's what keeps our faith unchanging.
If you want to enjoin in your biddah, go on ahead,

P.S.: Its a SECULAR Country....

P.S.S.: Christianity was deemed a non-religious holiday by the Supreme Court...so anyone can use it as they please...
Just because the supreme court says its not christian, doesn't mean we should celebrate it...Its still has a dark and UnGodly History...



You can't even begin to compare the copts, god fearing Christians, to the products of western theology...

Africa was the Original home to Judaism...
Abyssinia was one of the first great christian nations...

The only people being sucked into the Mormon/Evangelical Vortex are the Pagan Tribes of Central and Southern Africa.
The North is inpenatrable

There's a difference between celebrating and commemorating, according Ahmed Deedat. The latter is forbidden for Muslims in regards to Christmas, whereas teh former, like giving gifts and wishing happy holidays, etc. is ok.

[Synner]

It seems like sour grapes for some to react with such pith and vinegar at the notion of an acknowledgement by the House that Christmas is a traditional religious holiday. It’s not as though the Christmas celebration is a religious tradition that is being forced on anyone. I take it as merely an affirmation that Christmas is an important part of the American value system.

It appears that some have a deep resentment for a competing religious faith.

[Revert]

Originally Posted by Kona_Silat

There's a difference between celebrating and commemorating, according Ahmed Deedat. The latter is forbidden for Muslims in regards to Christmas, whereas teh former, like giving gifts and wishing happy holidays, etc. is ok.

I've never seen anythign to suggest giving gifts is okay to do on any Non Muslim Holiday. However I agree with sending greetings, itsonly good manners after all.

[Variable]

Originally Posted by Revert

I've never seen anythign to suggest giving gifts is okay to do on any Non Muslim Holiday. However I agree with sending greetings, itsonly good manners after all.

Have you ever seen anything to suggest that it isn't okay? I mean explicitly...

I'm curious because the way you worded your statement sounds like you're approaching it from the perspective of 'haram until proven halal' ... or maybe even makruh

[kenneth]

Originally Posted by Synner

It seems like sour grapes for some to react with such pith and vinegar at the notion of an acknowledgement by the House that Christmas is a traditional religious holiday. It’s not as though the Christmas celebration is a religious tradition that is being forced on anyone. I take it as merely an affirmation that Christmas is an important part of the American value system.

It appears that some have a deep resentment for a competing religious faith.

My resentment is for hot wind and fools. not a religion.

[Synner]

Originally Posted by kenneth

My resentment is for hot wind and fools. not a religion.

Well, it’s obvious you’re openly hostile to Christianity and allowing others the same freedom you feel an entitlement to: that of freedom of worship.

Might I suggest a place for you such as the KSA? There, others share your revulsion for competing religions and have ensured that those competing faiths are banned from being practiced.

[kenneth]

like i said. . . hot wind and fools.

You don't happen to know the first thing about my relationship with Christianity. So jump to all the conclusions you like.

it's funny when people think they know me.

[Revert]

Originally Posted by Variable

Have you ever seen anything to suggest that it isn't okay? I mean explicitly...

I'm curious because the way you worded your statement sounds like you're approaching it from the perspective of 'haram until proven halal' ... or maybe even makruh

Theres a good fatwa on this subject here

Islam Question and Answer - Accepting a gift from a kaafir on the day of his festival

Basically its fine to accept the gift but giving a gift on a Non Muslim holiday is wrong. You cangift them gifts on our holidays in stead.

[Revert]

Originally Posted by Synner

It seems like sour grapes for some to react with such pith and vinegar at the notion of an acknowledgement by the House that Christmas is a traditional religious holiday. It’s not as though the Christmas celebration is a religious tradition that is being forced on anyone. I take it as merely an affirmation that Christmas is an important part of the American value system.

It appears that some have a deep resentment for a competing religious faith.

The US govenrment recognises it as a Secular holiday, why do they need to backtrack on such a minor issue?

[kenneth]

I don't think there's ever anything innately wrong about giving a gift. However, intentions are really the heart of the matter. Giving is good. But the way people do it can be bad i think.

If you have selfish intentions when giving then it is giving done badly.

An important question to ask yourself is: "Why am I doing this? For whom or what am I doing this?"

I don't think Muslims should participate actively in the rites of other religious traditions, however, i've seen several non Muslims participate in Salaat.

Again, i think intentions are paramount.

[Synner]

Originally Posted by Revert

The US govenrment recognises it as a Secular holiday, why do they need to backtrack on such a minor issue?

I’m not sure what you mean when you ask “why do they need to backtrack on such a minor issue?” As I wrote in my post, “I take it as merely an affirmation that Christmas is an important part of the American value system.”

I suspect that there are those in the U.S. who feel that there is an erosion of traditional American values and institutions. I can empathize with that to a certain extent. I think in some cases we tend to wring our hands in fretful fear of not being politically correct enough and that there may be a group of three or four people who will take offense at a traditional celebration such as Christmas.

Of course, that’s the true genius of the Founding Fathers of the U.S. We have a secular government that cannot require or coerce religious affiliation such as in most muslim majority nations.

[kenneth]

this melding of religion and government makes me verrry uneasy. christmas was banned by pilgrims. Christmas has only become acceptable in western societies AFTER corporate interests recognized and seized the great business opportunities that were possible.

[kenneth]

You should have SEEN the evil look i received after not returning x-mas greetings to someone today.

jee whiz

if you are going to harbor such hatred and rancour over a thing, why carry it around?

[Revert]

Originally Posted by kenneth

I don't think there's ever anything innately wrong about giving a gift. However, intentions are really the heart of the matter. Giving is good. But the way people do it can be bad i think.

If you have selfish intentions when giving then it is giving done badly.

An important question to ask yourself is: "Why am I doing this? For whom or what am I doing this?"

I don't think Muslims should participate actively in the rites of other religious traditions, however, i've seen several non Muslims participate in Salaat.

Again, i think intentions are paramount.

I whole heartedly agree. for example giving a gift to close family meber with the intention of keeping ties is good. However giving a random stranger a gift in the spirit of "the season" is bad IMO.

I’m not sure what you mean when you ask “why do they need to backtrack on such a minor issue?” As I wrote in my post, “I take it as merely an affirmation that Christmas is an important part of the American value system.”

I suspect that there are those in the U.S. who feel that there is an erosion of traditional American values and institutions. I can empathize with that to a certain extent. I think in some cases we tend to wring our hands in fretful fear of not being politically correct enough and that there may be a group of three or four people who will take offense at a traditional celebration such as Christmas.

Of course, that’s the true genius of the Founding Fathers of the U.S. We have a secular government that cannot require or coerce religious affiliation such as in most muslim majority nations

It just seesm to em that certain groups are trying to backtrack on the issue fo Christmas when the decision and rule is place about its staus.

Christmas is not an American value or holiday.

[Variable]

Originally Posted by Revert

Theres a good fatwa on this subject here

Islam Question and Answer - Accepting a gift from a kaafir on the day of his festival

Basically its fine to accept the gift but giving a gift on a Non Muslim holiday is wrong. You cangift them gifts on our holidays in stead.

That was very explanatory thanks. But while the aim sounds like it's to 'soften the hearts of the unbelievers and make Islam more attractive' - I have to say the whole feeling of competition and agenda surrounding it, this fatwa does the opposite for me.