[kenneth]

the guy has about 2% in every poll i've seen, man.

[MossadConspiracy]

Originally Posted by kenneth

In case you are unaware, America is not a Shariah state. It's actually a secular representative democracy as far as the present constitution says.

Give me one reason, based on secular representative democratic government why gay marriage should be disallowed. (religious beliefs are not legislation in this system, you know.)

so yeah. i agree with the greens on this too. but thanks for trying to think for me Mossad. that was really nice of you.

salam

Fair enough, you support gay marriage. I dont think its worthwhile to mess up this topic by derailing it with an argument about Gay rights, so I'll just acknowledge that you support their right to marry one another. Sorry for assuming you didnt, but thats a minority opinion held by a very small number of practicing muslims. Its kind of like making the assumption that someone who is a practicing muslim is against the war in Iraq or supports Palestinian statehood. Of course there are some exceptions, but very few. So again, I apologize for assuming that you believe something that you dont really believe. Obviously, since you agree entirely with the Green platform then voting for them seems natural, even if they dont stand a chance of winning- building up their local stature and getting their message out is a worthy goal in and of itself.

Greens also tend to support freely available abortions for anyone in any trimester, physician assisted suicide, legalization of certain drugs, and a variety of other positions that most muslims dont agree with. It was wrong to assume that you had opinions similar to those of most muslims, everyone has a mind of their own

ws

[kenneth]

just because i favor a position that legalizes a thing does not mean i support it morally. I suppport legalizing marijuana, gay civil unions ect. not because i am gay or approveof homosexuality or because i am on drugs or think more people should use them. I support their legalization because the government is either overstepping it's bounds or causing undue suffering and injustice by trying to legislate thier morality.

i see you have been unable to justify a ban on gay unions without resorting to religious terminology. that's because religion is the only reason people oppose it. in a secular society, there is no reason to outlaw civil unions among homosexual partners. My personal objection to such a lifestyle is just that. Personal and private, basedon religious principles and I have no drive toimpose my own religiosity or morality on others especially when no one is being harmed.

In America, people are supposed to have equal treatment under the law. And there is supposed to be a seperation between Church/Mosque/Synagogue/Temple/Manda/Stupa and State.

[Blue_Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Kaminyu

Democrats and Republicans are two sides of the same coin.

I know. Aren't the Dems supposed to be an opposition party? When they've actually opposed the Republicans, they did it in such a way they came off as wimps. And the Republicans STILL got what they wanted. I hate to bring this old chestnut up: I'm beginning to actually hope the Republicans do what they threatened awhile ago and reopen the draft. Not because I'm in favor of the draft, but because it might be the only issue that would light a fire under Pelosi and get her side to begin some kind of actual opposition.

[Kaminyu]

Originally Posted by Blue_Phoenix

I know. Aren't the Dems supposed to be an opposition party? When they've actually opposed the Republicans, they did it in such a way they came off as wimps. And the Republicans STILL got what they wanted. I hate to bring this old chestnut up: I'm beginning to actually hope the Republicans do what they threatened awhile ago and reopen the draft. Not because I'm in favor of the draft, but because it might be the only issue that would light a fire under Pelosi and get her side to begin some kind of actual opposition.

I doubt it. This whole "2-party system" thing is farce to begin with. It really is just a locked 1-party system of plutocrats under 2 different names.

[TrentReznor858]

Originally Posted by Kona_Silat

I'm too busy preparing for the next zombie outbreak.

[kenneth]

Originally Posted by Blue_Phoenix

I know. Aren't the Dems supposed to be an opposition party? When they've actually opposed the Republicans, they did it in such a way they came off as wimps. And the Republicans STILL got what they wanted. I hate to bring this old chestnut up: I'm beginning to actually hope the Republicans do what they threatened awhile ago and reopen the draft. Not because I'm in favor of the draft, but because it might be the only issue that would light a fire under Pelosi and get her side to begin some kind of actual opposition.

it was Charles Rangle, a democrat who regularly suggests a return to the draft. not the repugs. thier privatized army is working just fine as far as they're concerned.

[psychoteddybear]

Originally Posted by hershel_krustowski

what a wild imagination you have.

but seriosuly man, stfu.

If you don't like don't read it. So piss off.

[Kaminyu]

Originally Posted by kenneth

the guy has about 2% in every poll i've seen, man.

In the national polls, it's at 3%, and steadily increasing as more people know about him. The Iowa straw poll shows him at 9.12%, which is better than how Giuliani and McCain did. He is dominating every candidate in online polls. His odds of winning, have been slashed from 200:1 to 15:1, and now to 8:1. He leads Republicans in web traffic by 45%. He's also the US Military's #1 choice.

[Blue_Phoenix]

Originally Posted by kenneth

it was Charles Rangle, a democrat who regularly suggests a return to the draft. not the repugs. thier privatized army is working just fine as far as they're concerned.

..................................................

How about they draft HIS ass.

This only proves my point that the ruling political parties are both the same. We gotta get some Greens in Congress.

[Bluestar]

The green party are superb in England too

[Aryan_]

Originally Posted by kenneth

Give me one reason, based on secular representative democratic government why gay marriage should be disallowed. (religious beliefs are not legislation in this system, you know.)

What if two elderly sisters who've lived together for most of their lives decide to enter a marriage or civil partnership to enjoy the tax and inheritance benefits in case the other dies? Currently, they would be afforded no recognition in the eyes of the law, even though they may have lived longer and loved and trust each other more than any heterosexual or homosexual couple.

Is it fair to deny them a state recognised union merely on the grounds that that relationship isn't sexual? Had they been lesbians denying them the benefits would be seen as a form of discrimination. And what about if it was two friends? The more what constitutes marriage is generalised the more ambiguous the concept becomes. And eventually it'll become redundant -- what is the point of favoured status if anyone can claim it?

Marriage was created to privilege a certain type of relationship, the one that would lead to the nuclear family. Reasons given for it in the past up until now have ranged from religious values to socio-economic stability and maintaining national birthrates, but it was there for a reason. Today it's just become a battleground for popular but meaningless buzz words like "equality" and "choice".

But I agree with you that it's hard to justify denying homosexuals the right to marriage in the context of a secular democratic society. But I think the solution should be for the state and law to dissociate from the concept of marriage completely, and reduce it to a private matter for religious and civil groups.

[kenneth]

agreed with aryan.

marriage is a religious institution.

therefore, if there is to be homosexual "marriage" (which i would oppose so far as Islam is concerned for obvious religious reasons) it should be an internal, sectarian, denominational issue.

this is why i use the term "civil union."

[wheelworks]

Originally Posted by hershel_krustowski

what a wild imagination you have.

but seriosuly man, stfu.

Red riding hood: What a big tongue you have!

hershel_krustowski: All the better to cuss with my dear...