[bluey]

Originally Posted by Timbit

Yeah, there is an Arab way and there is a desi way.

The Qur'an doesn't say you have to cover your hair. It says to draw your headcovering over your chest. It doesn't say you have to wear an abaya/jilbab. So you have Muslim women in South-Asia who wear a shawl or chador to cover their heads and bosoms. That is hijab for them. They don't think the way we dress in the West is hijab either, where people make sure to cover every single strand of hair but wear tight pants.

She's certainly not exposing herself.

My point is there are different meanings of "hijab" and "purdah" and I don't think it's right to say that Pakistani women don't wear a hijab properly.

A Womans awrah is everything except her face and hands, and that awrah is covered by Hijaab. Your hair is part of your awrah.

Secondly, there is consensus among the Ulema of the Ahlus Sunnah wal Jamaa, that a Womans hair is part of what must be covered in Hijaab.

Just because it is a common practice in some Countries doesn't make it automatically Islamically acceptable. The way some of the Women wear it in different parts of the World is more cultural then religious.

And Allah subhanna wa ta'ala knows best.

[GOTFIVEONIT]

Originally Posted by Timbit

Okay. Well, she's still covered so I'd say she's still observing hijab.
Not all Muslims wear "hijab" in the Arab way.



My dad's Punjabi and he's a big fan of Bhutto. He's involved with the PPP.

And that could be her, but really, who cares? Why does it matter what she wore when she was in college?
Didn't she go to Harvard anyway? That's not in Europe, last time I checked. I read an article about her and one of her profs at Harvard said he remembers her as being a shy girl in shalwar kameez.

What does Be-nazir mean anyway? The name?
I know Nazir means something like equal in Urdu, right? And many people, men and women, are called Nazir. So Be-nazir is like "without equal"? So then how does a name like just Nazir make sense? "Without equal" is better. Just plain old nazir is like... equal to whom?

your right she did goto harvard, and i dont think its her, because, her skin is alot lighter, and being 54 now, she would have attended college in the 70's. the hair style doesnt match the farah fawcet trend of the day. in fact i believe she went to college with george w. bush and was even introduced to him by daddy bush back in the harvard days.

but ppp portrays itself as a secular party, pakistan's equavilent of India's congress party. Benazir herself often compares herself to Indira Gandhi. She says her father told her that she will be to him, what indira was to nehru.

[GOTFIVEONIT]

Originally Posted by bluey

A Womans awrah is everything except her face and hands, and that awrah is covered by Hijaab. Your hair is part of your awrah.

Secondly, there is consensus among the Ulema of the Ahlus Sunnah wal Jamaa, that a Womans hair is part of what must be covered in Hijaab.

Just because it is a common practice in some Countries doesn't make it automatically Islamically acceptable. The way some of the Women wear it in different parts of the World is more cultural then religious.

And Allah subhanna wa ta'ala knows best.

and just because you qoute wahabi fanatics, doesnt make it islamically acceptable either.

[GOTFIVEONIT]

Originally Posted by Anderson

That's not her in the picture, regardless she is still corrupt and needs to accidently choke on something.

your right, i think the four mansions she owns in london and dubai is proof enough of that. i saw a video of it before she left for pakistan, of her mansion in dubai, unbelievable. no wonder she left her daughters there.

[GOTFIVEONIT]

but daddy bhutto's plan for 'islamic socialism' was a joke in itself. his slogan of 'kana kapra aur makan' (food, clothing and shelter) was just hot air and nothing more. after all bhutto and general yahya khan was responsible for the breakup of east and west pakistan, he muslim homeland, because they would not accept losing the 1970 elections to a bengali, mujibar rahman, which resulted in the loss of half of the country.

YouTube - Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto

YouTube - Speeches by Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto(Part 1)

YouTube - Geo Tv report - Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto

YouTube - Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto speaking to youth

YouTube - The Leopard And The Fox

YouTube - Bhutto and Zia...BBC Urdu Interview part 1

YouTube - Bhutto and Zia...BBC Urdu Interview part 2

[Timbit]

Originally Posted by bluey

A Womans awrah is everything except her face and hands, and that awrah is covered by Hijaab. Your hair is part of your awrah.

Secondly, there is consensus among the Ulema of the Ahlus Sunnah wal Jamaa, that a Womans hair is part of what must be covered in Hijaab.

Just because it is a common practice in some Countries doesn't make it automatically Islamically acceptable. The way some of the Women wear it in different parts of the World is more cultural then religious.

And Allah subhanna wa ta'ala knows best.

Well, there are scholars who disagree with that based on the evidence too.

And that's the exact point that I'm making. Just because dressing head to toe in a black burkha is common practice in some Arab countries, doesn't mean it's the only Islamic way. A shalwar kameez and a dupatta draped loosely on your head so that your chest is covered is still a form of purdah.

[Anderson]

Originally Posted by Timbit

Well, there are scholars who disagree with that based on the evidence too.

And that's the exact point that I'm making. Just because dressing head to toe in a black burkha is common practice in some Arab countries, doesn't mean it's the only Islamic way. A shalwar kameez and a dupatta draped loosely on your head so that your chest is covered is still a form of purdah.

Which scholars exactly? Quote one, prove your point.

[TariqBinSleepin]

Originally Posted by Timbit

Is the point of hijab to cover your hair?

Originally Posted by Timbit

Okay. Well, she's still covered so I'd say she's still observing hijab.
Not all Muslims wear "hijab" in the Arab way.



My dad's Punjabi and he's a big fan of Bhutto. He's involved with the PPP.

And that could be her, but really, who cares? Why does it matter what she wore when she was in college?
Didn't she go to Harvard anyway? That's not in Europe, last time I checked. I read an article about her and one of her profs at Harvard said he remembers her as being a shy girl in shalwar kameez.

What does Be-nazir mean anyway? The name?
I know Nazir means something like equal in Urdu, right? And many people, men and women, are called Nazir. So Be-nazir is like "without equal"? So then how does a name like just Nazir make sense? "Without equal" is better. Just plain old nazir is like... equal to whom?

Originally Posted by GOTFIVEONIT

and just because you qoute wahabi fanatics, doesnt make it islamically acceptable either.

Wear hijab in the Arab way? o.O. There is actually NO contradiction / doubt within the muslims regarding WHAT is a hijab covering. The hijab is mentioned 7 times in the Quran and their are two different things, Hijab and Khimar. Im sure a sister in here would better explain this than me >_> but ya....hijab means covering the hair and the bossom, but does not speak of the FAce, because there have been incidents during the Prophet (PBUH) time regarding this issue. But to say that Hijab is a Arab thing...

Who is quoting Wahabi Fanatics? Islam is a religion of Moderationg, its right in the middle. Im not trying to preach anything, but dont just say random crap. Got5

[AbuAbdullah]

if he actually thinks part of the hijab is not covering the hair, hes lost.

[Timbit]

Okay, you guys aren't getting it. I'm not saying the hijab is an Arab thing and I definitely don't wanna make this a debate about whether hijab (as in covering your head) is required or not because we've had more than enough of those on Islamica. If you want another one for after the crash, then make a different thread. And just for the record, I'm of the view that hijab is an Islamic requirement.

What I'm saying is that nobody can say her hijab isn't proper hijab as "hijab" means different things culturally. A chador can be a hijab too. Her dupatta in this case is covering her head, no? And her body is covered with a shalwar kameez. You guys can be anal and say "Yeah, her ears are showing and and a little bit of her forearm is showing", but she is effectively covering herself. She is practicing purdah.

Pakistani women wear shalwar kameez and dupattas to cover their heads and bosoms and Pakistani scholars don't seem to have a problem with that. They don't know their Islam?

[bluey]

Originally Posted by Timbit

Well, there are scholars who disagree with that based on the evidence too.

And that's the exact point that I'm making. Just because dressing head to toe in a black burkha is common practice in some Arab countries, doesn't mean it's the only Islamic way. A shalwar kameez and a dupatta draped loosely on your head so that your chest is covered is still a form of purdah.

Disagreeing that hair of the head is not part of Awrah and shouldn’t be covered in Hijaab? The only ‘Scholars’ I’ve heard hold that view are either Progressives or Modernists. And honestly, I wouldn’t look twice at their views or their so-called Fatawas. However, if you’ve heard of anyone else, feel free to post it Insha’Allah.

The concept of hair being Awrah is something that is unanimously agreed upon by all major schools of thought and it is one of basic fundamentals that everyone agrees on. It’s one of the few things that the Scholars will never debate on. The Hanafis, Malikis, Shafies, Hanbalis, the Salafis and the Shias will all agree on it. They differ on other things, like the showing of feet or the covering of the face, but not the hair.

As for the dressing from head-to-toe in black, I never said anything about that. Although, again there are conditions that need to be filled for Hijaab, [It shouldn’t be revealing, tight, etc], I never said anything about the colour. Although you do find some evidence that an outer garment was worn during the time of the Prophet sallalahu alayhi wasallam and some Ulema say that the word ‘jalabib’ in Surah al-Ahzab refers to a Jilbab. But that is a whole different story.

[Timbit]

Originally Posted by bluey

The only ‘Scholars’ I’ve heard hold that view are either Progressives or Modernists. And honestly, I wouldn’t look twice at their views or their so-called Fatawas. However, if you’ve heard of anyone else, feel free to post it Insha’Allah.

How come you dismiss them like that?

I don't know any Pakistani scholars, but when I went to Pakistan, the imams in my village didn't have a problem with how the women dressed. In shalwar kameezes and dupattas/chadors.

[bluey]

Originally Posted by Timbit

How come you dismiss them like that?

I don't know any Pakistani scholars, but when I went to Pakistan, the imams in my village didn't have a problem with how the women dressed. In shalwar kameezes and dupattas/chadors.

Anyone with a sane mind would dismiss 'Scholars' who are of the Progressive and Modernist movements. Their followers include the likes of Irshad Manji and Ali Eteraz. Their views about Islam are totally distorted and they don't actually go and study Islam like it is supposed to be studied. One of their sites include MuslimWakeUp.

[AbuAbdullah]

Originally Posted by Timbit

Ho