Panel approves bill on Armenians

albano · #1 (**permalink**) 10-11-2007, 03:14 AM

How dump people can be? Let see the consequences!
It's funny how specific people in the world try to change the history with different bills and laws. But sacrificing US interst for few armenian votes in CA is dump thing to do.

Panel approves bill on Armenians - Yahoo! News

psychoteddybear · #2 (**permalink**) 10-12-2007, 11:01 PM

......it has its bad and good sides to it.

i don't think it was a genocide. but then again..if this came to light and was to pass...then it can pave the way hopefully for other unacknowledged genocides.

albano · #3 (**permalink**) 10-13-2007, 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by psychoteddybear

......it has its bad and good sides to it.

i don't think it was a genocide. but then again..if this came to light and was to pass...then it can pave the way hopefully for other unacknowledged genocides.

Which other unknown genocides? The genocide of Redskins in North America or the bombing of Dresden during WW2. Don't even mention Hiroshima and Nagasaki! How about killing more than a million iraqis? US goverment directly involved in the last one.
You want more examples? These are all heard. Nothing is unheard.

SaidAbdullahofDarfur · #4 (**permalink**) 10-13-2007, 12:48 AM

Man turkey got pissed off...

They're threatening to destabilize the american establishment in Iraq...

What would happen If turkey full out invaded Iraq to flush out those Kurds?
Would they flee southward?

Would Turkey Push toward Baghdad?
Would Kurdish Rebels join the fray already raging on in southern Iraq?

The Chaos, all for a bill...

Our government is stupid...

Variable · #5 (**permalink**) 10-13-2007, 03:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaidAbdullahofDarfur

Man turkey got pissed off...

They're threatening to destabilize the american establishment in Iraq...

What would happen If turkey full out invaded Iraq to flush out those Kurds?
Would they flee southward?

Would Turkey Push toward Baghdad?
Would Kurdish Rebels join the fray already raging on in southern Iraq?

Um, no...

.......

Variable · #6 (**permalink**) 10-13-2007, 03:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by albano

Which other unknown genocides? the bombing of Dresden during WW2. Don't even mention Hiroshima and Nagasaki!

Those weren't genocides, and they were carried out directly by the US Gov too. Genocide has a very certain definition, thus the debate over whether what happened to the Armenians can be considered genocide or not.

If sanctions against Iraq are to be considered genocide, then what the Turks did to the Armenians would certainly fit some sort of profile for it.

Arabesque · #7 (**permalink**) 10-13-2007, 03:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Variable

If sanctions against Iraq are to be considered genocide, then what the Turks did to the Armenians would certainly fit some sort of profile for it.

Not to justify the massacres against the Armenians, but the fact that these random killings were a reaction to what the Armenians had done to the Muslim population in these areas tends to get glossed over by Armenian rhetoric. Yes, massacres happened. On both sides.

The European powers, and especially England and Russia wanted to intervene in the internal affairs of the Ottoman Empire and used the non-Muslim millets as an excuse. They wanted to supposedly protect and promote the rights of their co-religionists (namely the Armenians and Greeks), and mistakenly gave them a sense of empowerment. Because of that misleading assumption that they'll have their backs covered, the Armenians engaged in the random killing and displacement of their Muslim neighbours. Mosques were desecrated, and women were raped, too.

Sultan Abdulhamid II sent the army "to curb down rebellion." He did not order the killing of Armenians. He totally considered them Ottoman citizens and they had already gained so much rights unknown to them and other millets before the Sultan's reign. The fact that the army went overboard in trying to control the rebellion is what makes this a debatable question of "massacre" or "genocide".

If you don't think the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasai was an act of genocide, then I don't see why the Armenian massacres should be referred to as such. It's not like they were ethnically-cleansed or anything. They were given a chance to leave ... more like driven out, I know, but still. Many escaped. The unfortunate ones didn't. But then, even the innocent Muslims who were subjected to Armenian terror didn't completely escape it.

albano · #8 (**permalink**) 10-13-2007, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arabesque

Not to justify the massacres against the Armenians, but the fact that these random killings were a reaction to what the Armenians had done to the Muslim population in these areas tends to get glossed over by Armenian rhetoric. Yes, massacres happened. On both sides.

The European powers, and especially England and Russia wanted to intervene in the internal affairs of the Ottoman Empire and used the non-Muslim millets as an excuse. They wanted to supposedly protect and promote the rights of their co-religionists (namely the Armenians and Greeks), and mistakenly gave them a sense of empowerment. Because of that misleading assumption that they'll have their backs covered, the Armenians engaged in the random killing and displacement of their Muslim neighbours. Mosques were desecrated, and women were raped, too.

Sultan Abdulhamid II sent the army "to curb down rebellion." He did not order the killing of Armenians. He totally considered them Ottoman citizens and they had already gained so much rights unknown to them and other millets before the Sultan's reign. The fact that the army went overboard in trying to control the rebellion is what makes this a debatable question of "massacre" or "genocide".

If you don't think the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasai was an act of genocide, then I don't see why the Armenian massacres should be referred to as such. It's not like they were ethnically-cleansed or anything. They were given a chance to leave ... more like driven out, I know, but still. Many escaped. The unfortunate ones didn't. But then, even the innocent Muslims who were subjected to Armenian terror didn't completely escape it.

Thank you for saving my time. So far I really don't have what to add let's see later.

albano · #9 (**permalink**) 10-13-2007, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Variable

Those weren't genocides, and they were carried out directly by the US Gov too. Genocide has a very certain definition, thus the debate over whether what happened to the Armenians can be considered genocide or not.

If sanctions against Iraq are to be considered genocide, then what the Turks did to the Armenians would certainly fit some sort of profile for it.

In Dresden and HIroshima didn't have to kill all the civilians.
History is written by strong people not by just people. So all the crap we read is worthless.
So let's see when the equilibrium changes what is considered genocide and what not?
Everything is relative.
Anyways I totally disagree with you.

MuslimahDaTurkish · #10 (**permalink**) 10-13-2007, 12:21 PM

The moral of this story so far:
Theyre playing games over Turkiye and other muslim communities. They have plans, but Allah is the best of planners. InshaAllah.

psychoteddybear · #11 (**permalink**) 10-13-2007, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by albano

Which other unknown genocides? The genocide of Redskins in North America or the bombing of Dresden during WW2. Don't even mention Hiroshima and Nagasaki! How about killing more than a million iraqis? US goverment directly involved in the last one.
You want more examples? These are all heard. Nothing is unheard.

the one my own people went through, for example

Olympic Genocide 21 May, A Day of Mourning :::Circassian Genocide:::

there are others like this definitely

wa salam

psychoteddybear · #12 (**permalink**) 10-13-2007, 11:27 PM

Armenian Genocide ..........

i dunno. whatever.

does genocide have to be directly killing people? could it also be considered as such when it's done in an "indirect" manner?

Kona_Silat · #13 (**permalink**) 10-13-2007, 11:55 PM

Isn't the Turkish gov't un-islamic anyways.. i mean they are the ones trying to prevent women from choosing to wear the hijab. If anything it might make a knee jerk reaction.

albano · #14 (**permalink**) 10-14-2007, 12:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kona_Silat

Isn't the Turkish gov't un-islamic anyways.. i mean they are the ones trying to prevent women from choosing to wear the hijab. If anything it might make a knee jerk reaction.

Current Goverment is trying to change the law that prohibits hijab. That law was put by the previous goverments and supported by military. So far the goverment and the presidency is taken bu military still belongs to secular( I would say nonreligous) people.

albano · #15 (**permalink**) 10-14-2007, 12:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by psychoteddybear

the one my own people went through, for example

Olympic Genocide 21 May, A Day of Mourning :::Circassian Genocide:::

there are others like this definitely

wa salam

Good reminder. Russian people commited genocides against caucasian people. Last one is against Chechnya.
By the way. There is Circassians all around the world. Even in Balkans there is villages or last names 'Cerkez'-Circassian. In Ottoman Empire there were vezirs with Circassian origin. Another thing is that everybody talks about Circassian Women. They say they are very beautiful