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Old 09-29-2007, 08:42 AM
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Default Turkey-Iraq team-up against PKK

And for the second time, the Kurds thought the US was there to help them.
------

Turkey, Iraq sign deal to combat Turkish Kurd rebels

ANKARA (AFP) — Turkey and Iraq on Friday signed an agreement to crack down on Turkish Kurd rebels based in northern Iraq, but Turkey failed to secure a right for cross-border military operations.

The two countries pledged to "prevent the activities of terrorist organisations and primarily the PKK," Turkish Interior Minister Besir Atalay said after he and Iraqi counterpart, Jawad Al-Bolani, signed the accord at the end of three days of thorny negotiations.

Turkey says the separatist Kurdistan Workers' Party (PKK) enjoys free movement in northern Iraq, where it has long taken refuge, and obtains weapons and explosives there for attacks across the border.

The PKK is listed as a terrorist group by Turkey, the United States and much of the international community.

Atalay said the two sides failed to agree on a proposed provision concerning "the strengthening of security and cooperation in border areas" and that negotiations would continue.

A draft provision sought by Ankara would have reportedly allowed Turkey -- with Iraqi authorisation -- to conduct "hot pursuit", or small-scale military operations across the border to hunt PKK militants.

But the Iraqi Kurds, who run northern Iraq and have been accused by Ankara of tolerating and even aiding the PKK, raised objections to the provision, according to media reports.

Ankara has threatened unilateral military action into northern Iraq if Baghdad and Washington fail to curb the PKK.

"We cannot accept any of our neighbours being subjected to a threat originating from our country. You can be assured that the necessary measures will be taken," Bolani said.

Other provisions called for blocking financial and logistical support for terrorist groups and preventing their means of propaganda and political activities, Atalay said.

The deal envisages judicial cooperation against terrorist groups as well as the capture of their members and their prosecution or extradition, he said.

Turkish and Iraqi officals will meet every six months to assess progress under the agreement.

Turkey has accused the forces of Massud Barzani, who heads the autonomous Kurdish administration in northern Iraq, of tolerating the PKK and even providing it with weapons, possibly including ammunition received from the United States.

Turkish observers doubt whether the embattled government in Baghdad, which has virtually no authority in northern Iraq, can cajole the Iraqi Kurds into action against the PKK, whose 23-year armed campaign for self-rule in southeast Turkey has left more than 37,000 dead.

A senior Turkish diplomat involved in the talks said Ankara was satisfied with the agreement, but critics were pessimistic.

"This agreement is useless, it is a strategy to distract" Turkey, retired general Necati Ozgen, who has experience in fighting the PKK, said.

Prior to the US-led invasion of Iraq in 2003, Turkey carried out incursions into northern Iraq, but with the consent of the Iraqi Kurds.

Their relations however have badly deteriorated since then amid Turkish suspicions that Iraqi Kurds are seeking to form their own state, emboldening the PKK's separatist campaign.

In June, the Turkish army said there were some 5,000 PKK rebels in total, with 2,800-3,100 based in northern Iraq.

The PKK has stepped up its attacks in the southeast this year. The army has reinforced units in the region and amassed troops on the Iraqi border.

Washington has warned Ankara against an incursion into northern Iraq, wary that it may destabilise a relatively peaceful region of the country and fuel fresh tensions between Turkey and the Iraqi Kurds, staunch US allies.


AFP
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Old 09-29-2007, 10:18 AM
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Default Re: Turkey-Iraq team-up against PKK

sounds more like a loss for Turkey. US pressure on the Turks must have been involved in this deal
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Old 10-17-2007, 08:35 AM
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Default Re: Turkey-Iraq team-up against PKK

Acting in favor of PKK is not helping Kurds. PKK is a bloody Marxist-Stalinist terrorist organization that does not represent the majority or even a sizeable minoirty of the Kurds. The atheists who govern the PKK are worse than the Turkish secularists in terms of their oblivion and disrespect to the ISlamic values of the people whom they claim to represent..
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Old 10-17-2007, 09:27 AM
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Default Re: Turkey-Iraq team-up against PKK

They may not fully represent all kurds, but they certainly represent them alot more than the Turkish govenrment does.
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Old 10-17-2007, 09:31 AM
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Default Re: Turkey-Iraq team-up against PKK

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Originally Posted by MossadConspiracy View Post
They may not fully represent all kurds, but they certainly represent them alot more than the Turkish govenrment does.
No they do not in the least. There are hundreds of Kurdish PMs in the 550-member Turkish Parliament elected by the millions of Kurds of that region. (Of all these Kurdish PMs, only 24 or so are close to the PKK and its godless ideology. The rest are normal members of the Turkish Grand National Assembly ) Therefore the Turkish Parliament represents the Kurds more than anything else.
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Old 10-17-2007, 09:40 AM
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Default Re: Turkey-Iraq team-up against PKK

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Originally Posted by Ugur View Post
No they do not in the least. There are hundreds of Kurdish PMs in the 550-member Turkish Parliament elected by the millions of Kurds of that region. (Of all these Kurdish PMs, only 24 or so are close to the PKK and its godless ideology. The rest are normal members of the Turkish Grand National Assembly ) Therefore the Turkish Parliament represents the Kurds more than anything else.
not really, if you want to get technical then the most representative body for Kurds would be the government of the Kurdish Autonomous Region in Iraq which is elected by, and made up entirely of Kurds without many kurdish parties and kurdish viewpoints being banned as they are in Turkey.

Anyway, PKK is a nationalist group that commits acts of terrorism, I'm not saying that they're good. But its silly for to Turkish government or its supporters like yourself to speak against the PKK and in support of Turkey, and to do so on behalf of the Kurds themselves.

By the way, congratulations to Turkey for breaking Armenian hearts today and strengthening the friendship and alliance with America that is so important for both nations and their Europe/Mideast policies

PS: Out of curiosity, do you know the full number of Kurdish MP's in the Turkish assembly??
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Old 10-17-2007, 09:50 AM
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Default Re: Turkey-Iraq team-up against PKK

The Kurdish autonomous region in North Iraq may represent only the 4 million Kurds there. The 10-15 million Kurds in Turkey are represented by the Kurdish PMs in the Parliament of Turkey.

You certainly don't know anything about expression of Kurdish viewpoints in Turkey. Even nationalist pro-terrorist newspapers which praise the terrorist chief Abdullah Ocalan are freely circulated here. You don't know a heck about this stuff; that's why you are telling the lie that Kurdish viewpoints are banned here, which is nonsense.

It is true that there are some obstacles to freedom of speech in Turkey, especially regarding religious Muslims rather than idiotic Turkish or Kurdish nationalists, but they can be resolved only through peaceful means. Personally, most of my Kurdish friends are against the PKK or an independent Kurdish state. They say such an attempt will cause Kurds only trouble. They want more jobs and a better Turkish economy which can allocate more wealth to the Kurdish regions.
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Old 10-17-2007, 09:52 AM
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Default Re: Turkey-Iraq team-up against PKK

That's what they want, not a pseudo-Kurdish American colony run by imperialists and godless racist secularists.
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Old 10-17-2007, 10:52 AM
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Default Re: Turkey-Iraq team-up against PKK

Quote:
Originally Posted by MossadConspiracy View Post
PS: Out of curiosity, do you know the full number of Kurdish MP's in the Turkish assembly??
We had a kurdish prime minister ;Turgut Özal,
And we had a famous kurdish scholar which has thousands of followers today that are Turks; Said Nursi. What do you know?

Kurdish mp's got votes of the minority of kurds.Please, please and please; place that in your mind. Kurds dont equal to Pkk,nor pkk represent Kurds.

Dont worry ,the US is with pkk still, they get their bombs and guns from the US,theyre fed by the US.
Those are just politics, a so-called alliance of ours. Nothing in action on our side.

Let them all go to hell. And leave us in peace.
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Old 10-18-2007, 12:44 AM
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Default Re: Turkey-Iraq team-up against PKK

maybe military action isnt the right solution. why not treat them like drug dealers and arrest them? what i dont get is, where does the pkk get thier funding from?
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Old 10-18-2007, 10:02 AM
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Default Re: Turkey-Iraq team-up against PKK

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what i dont get is, where does the pkk get thier funding from?
not that hard to guess
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Old 10-18-2007, 07:13 PM
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Default Re: Turkey-Iraq team-up against PKK

Quote:
Originally Posted by MuslimahDaTurkish View Post
We had a kurdish prime minister ;Turgut Özal,
And we had a famous kurdish scholar which has thousands of followers today that are Turks; Said Nursi. What do you know?

Kurdish mp's got votes of the minority of kurds.Please, please and please; place that in your mind. Kurds dont equal to Pkk,nor pkk represent Kurds.

Dont worry ,the US is with pkk still, they get their bombs and guns from the US,theyre fed by the US.
Those are just politics, a so-called alliance of ours. Nothing in action on our side.

Let them all go to hell. And leave us in peace.
Ameen.

The PKK is an anachronistic dinosaur. It's past is communist russia, it's present is a cult and it's future is in the dustbin of history....
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Old 10-18-2007, 07:39 PM
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Default Re: Turkey-Iraq team-up against PKK

With due respect to all you guys, I don't see why a good Kurd is necessarily a Kurd who doesn't want an independent Kurdistan. If I were a Kurd, I'd want an independent Kurdistan, too. We're not living in the days of khilafa, and every other sub-nation today has an independent state in the region. Look at Gulf Arabs, for instance. We didn't need to have 7 countries (this includes the Arab part of Iraq). We could have easily been one large country. Our dialects are very similar, and the slight variations are trivial.

The Kurds, on the other hand, are a distinct race. They have their own culture, their own cuisine and - most importantly - their own language. If they want to be communists, by all means! It's their choice. If Turkey wants to be secular; it's Turkey's choice. Let's not impose our collective views on others. I'm sure there are Kurds who don't want to live under communist rule, but that is for them to figure out. For that, they'll need their own country and a multi-party political system.

Let's imagine a different scenario with Turks being the scattered community (race/language) living in Kurdistan and other countries in the region. Wouldn't the Turks want their own country? After all, they have their own history to teach. They have their own language to celebrate. Even if they were granted equal rights (which can never happen), they'd still feel left behind. Everybody else has a state. Why not them?

As an Arab, I could easily be nationalistic about this and object to the secession of Kurdistan from Iraq. But there's no need to be. Just because the PKK are active and violent, that doesn't mean they're going to be the future of Kurdistan. To say that we'd then have to deal with a violent neighbour is just a lame excuse.

I hope we all try to empathise with the Kurds. No matter what, living as a restricted minority is not really nice.
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Old 10-18-2007, 07:45 PM
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Default Re: Turkey-Iraq team-up against PKK

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ugur View Post
The Kurdish autonomous region in North Iraq may represent only the 4 million Kurds there. The 10-15 million Kurds in Turkey are represented by the Kurdish PMs in the Parliament of Turkey.

You certainly don't know anything about expression of Kurdish viewpoints in Turkey. Even nationalist pro-terrorist newspapers which praise the terrorist chief Abdullah Ocalan are freely circulated here. You don't know a heck about this stuff; that's why you are telling the lie that Kurdish viewpoints are banned here, which is nonsense.

It is true that there are some obstacles to freedom of speech in Turkey, especially regarding religious Muslims rather than idiotic Turkish or Kurdish nationalists, but they can be resolved only through peaceful means. Personally, most of my Kurdish friends are against the PKK or an independent Kurdish state. They say such an attempt will cause Kurds only trouble. They want more jobs and a better Turkish economy which can allocate more wealth to the Kurdish regions.
If the Kurds are so happy as subjects of Turkey then why shouldnt they be allowed to vote on their future and what flag they should live under?

You answered the rest of your questions. Some Kurdish parties (and their viewpoints) are banned, along with others like the religious ones that you mentioned

ws
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Old 10-18-2007, 07:47 PM
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Default Re: Turkey-Iraq team-up against PKK

Quote:
Originally Posted by MuslimahDaTurkish View Post
We had a kurdish prime minister ;Turgut Özal,
And we had a famous kurdish scholar which has thousands of followers today that are Turks; Said Nursi. What do you know?

Kurdish mp's got votes of the minority of kurds.Please, please and please; place that in your mind. Kurds dont equal to Pkk,nor pkk represent Kurds.

Dont worry ,the US is with pkk still, they get their bombs and guns from the US,theyre fed by the US.
Those are just politics, a so-called alliance of ours. Nothing in action on our side.

Let them all go to hell. And leave us in peace.
Salam I just wanted to know how many Kurdish MPs are in your parliament and the question was just out of curiosity, it wasnt loaded.

BTW, congratulations to you as well
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