[Variable]

Originally Posted by GOTFIVEONIT

other muslim countries put down violent rebelions in thier provinces as well. thats not choosing nation thats preserving your territorial integrity. our states here in the u.s. have autonomy too, but under a federal system that is equal to federal law. the feds still have the final authority in the end.

No they don't - not in areas of State jurisdiction. The whole reason the National Guard exists is to defend the state level government (although you'd be forgiven for not realizing that these days)

in India for example, it goes even further, the president (only a constitutional figurehead) has the right to dismiss elected state governments and rule the state directly from his office in the nation's capital of delhi. usually this occurs if law and order breaks down or there is massive corruption on a state level.

- Just in case there's massive corruption? Anyway, India has a parliamentary system. The executive power isn't vested in one guy like in the US system, but the central power is still curbed by the federal system I'd imagine.

[GOTFIVEONIT]

Originally Posted by Variable

No they don't - not in areas of State jurisdiction. The whole reason the National Guard exists is to defend the state level government (although you'd be forgiven for not realizing that these days)




- Just in case there's massive corruption? Anyway, India has a parliamentary system. The executive power isn't vested in one guy like in the US system, but the central power is still curbed by the federal system I'd imagine.

on a state level we set our own laws. you cant even extradite someone to a different state without a court hearing first. we set our own taxes, and our own school curriculim for each and every school district. we can even decide what holidays we wish to observe. thats what you call autonomy, even in countries that have provinces, they dont have such autonomy. the national government for example, set's the school curriculm under the minstry of education.

[GOTFIVEONIT]

Report: 15 Kurds dead in Turkey clashes

By SUZAN FRASER, Associated Press Writer
2 hours, 20 minutes ago

ANKARA, Turkey - Turkish troops killed 15 Kurdish guerrillas in fighting Sunday far from the increasingly tense Iraq border region where some of the separatists have sought refuge, a news report said. Turkey's prime minister called for unity between Turks and Kurds against the rebels.

The clash occurred in the mainly Kurdish province of Tunceli, which is not near the border with Iraq where most of the recent clashes have occurred. The governor's office for Tunceli confirmed there was fighting in the province but would not confirm casualty figures. The private Dogan news agency reported the deaths of 15 rebels.

The government-run Anatolia news agency said the fighting began Sunday morning and the Turkish troops were backed by helicopter gunships. Security forces shut down a major highway leading to Pulumur, it said. It did not mention casualties.

Tunceli is some 340 miles northeast of the province of Sirnak and 400 miles northeast from Hakkari, the province where most of the recent fighting with the rebels have taken place. Sirnak and Hakkari border Iraq.

"As long as we are firmly bound together, the treacherous separatist terrorist attacks will never reach their goal," Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan said in a message ahead of Oct. 29 celebrations marking the 84th anniversary of the Turkish republic.

"I want to declare this one more time: The struggle we lead against the separatist terrorism that aims to destroy our unity and our constitutional order will continue with belief and determination," he said.

Kurds make up an estimated 30 percent of the Turkish population, and are located mostly in Turkey's relatively poor southeastern region, near the borders with Iraq, Iran and Syria.

Turkey does not consider the Kurds to be a distinct ethnic group and therefore does not grant them minority rights. Turkey's Kurds have long claimed discrimination and demanded increased cultural rights. Speaking Kurdish was illegal in Turkey until 1991.

Turkey has been threatening to stage a cross-border military offensive into Iraq to hunt down the rebels who maintain bases there.

The conflict dates back to 1984 but clashes between government forces and guerrilla fighters have been escalating since the rebels broke a cease-fire in 2004.

Kurdistan Workers' Party, or PKK, fighters have killed at least 42 people in the past month. Those casualties included some 30 Turkish soldiers in two ambushes that were the boldest attacks in years.

There is increased anger toward the PKK in Turkey, and tens of thousands of Turks have staged street protests in several Turkish cities condemning the guerrillas and pushing for action since last Sunday, when 12 soldiers were killed in a Kurdish rebel ambush. The PKK said it was holding eight other soldiers captive.

Military helicopters have been shuttling more troops to the mountains near Iraq, while patrols secure roads and checkpoints. The Turkish government has not said how many troops are now in place, but local media has been reporting between 100,000 and 150,000 soldiers are massed in the region, squaring off against some 3,000 to 4,000 PKK fighters.

On Sunday, an AP Television News cameraman saw a platoon returning from a mission to secure a road near the border. About half a dozen helicopters flew along the frontier.

The United States, Iraq and other countries have been pressing for Turkey to refrain from cross-border military operations.

A military campaign in Iraq could derail one of the few stable areas in Iraq, and leave the United States in an awkward position with key allies: NATO-member Turkey, the Baghdad government and the self-governing Iraqi Kurds in the north.

Talks between Iraqi and Turkish officials on Friday failed to produce any breakthroughs and the Iraqi delegation returned home on Saturday.

In Tehran, Iran's foreign minister accused the U.S. and Israel of supporting Kurdish separatists in northern Iraq. His Turkish counterpart distanced himself from the claim, saying he didn't think Washington was behind the Iraq-based rebels.

Iranian Foreign Minister Manouchehr Mottaki told reporters in Tehran at a news conference with Ali Babacan, Turkey's foreign minister, that "terrorist activities" have increased in northern Iraq since "foreign forces" arrived there.

"From our point of view, efforts by Israel and the U.S. are behind some terrorist activities. Most probably, some secret agreements have caused a lack of confrontation against terrorism," Mottaki said, referring to Iraq-based Kurdish rebels.

"We hope this part of the U.S. policy would be corrected," he said.

Babacan, who was in Iran to lobby for support for the Turkish side in its conflict with the PKK, expressed gratitude for Iran's cooperation but did not back Mottaki's accusations against the U.S. and Israel, which are Turkish allies.

"I don't like to think that the U.S. supports a terrorist group," Babacan said.

[GOTFIVEONIT]

Turkey has massed about 100,000 troops near the Iraq border

THE PKK
- Formed in late 1970s
- Launched armed struggle in 1984
- Dropped independence demands in 1990s
- Wants greater autonomy for Turkey's Kurds
- Leader Abdullah Ocalan arrested in 1999
- Ended five-year ceasefire in 2004
- Called a terrorist organisation by Turkey, the EU and US

Last Updated: Sunday, 28 October 2007, 14:37 GMT

Turkish troops 'kill PKK rebels'

Turkey has massed about 100,000 troops near the Iraq border
Turkish troops have killed 15 suspected Kurdish rebels in the east of the country, reports say.

Military sources and Turkish TV reports said operations were taking place near the town of Pulumur, in the eastern province of Tunceli.

The area is thought to be a stronghold of separatists from the Kurdistan Workers' Party (PKK).

Turkey has stepped up moves against the PKK recently after strikes from across the border with Iraq.

The government in Ankara has warned it will not tolerate continued raids by PKK fighters based in northern Iraq, and has massed troops near the border in preparation for a possible ground invasion.

Assault

Sunday's raid happened a considerable distance from the border flashpoints.

Tunceli is some 550km (340 miles) north-east of the province of Sirnak and 650km (400 miles) north-east of Hakkari, where most of the recent fighting has taken place.

The government-run Anatolia news agency said fighting began on Sunday morning, with Turkish troops backed by helicopter gunships.

One report said some 8,000 troops were involved.

Security forces also shut down a major highway leading to the town of Pulumur, Anatolia reported.

There was no official confirmation of casualty figures, but two private TV stations said 15 PKK rebels were killed.

Regional row

The latest raid came a day after Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan criticised European Union nations for not doing enough to rein in the guerrillas.

He said EU nations were not arresting or extraditing PKK members.

Turkey has demanded that Iraq hand over any PKK members based in northern Iraq, something the leader of the semi-autonomous Kurdish Regional Government has refused to do.

Speaking to al-Jazeera TV, Masoud Barzani also said he would not allow the PKK to use the region as a base for attacks on Turkey.

There were a number of anti-PKK demonstrations across Turkey over the weekend, with fresh protests in Istanbul on Sunday.

[GOTFIVEONIT]

Turkey expects the US to use its influence to stop PKK attacks

Last Updated: Friday, 2 November 2007, 14:35 GMT

US declares PKK 'a common enemy'

The US Secretary of State, Condoleezza Rice, has said Turkey and the United States share a common enemy in the Kurdistan Workers' Party (PKK).
Ms Rice said the fight against the Kurdish separatist rebels would require persistence and commitment, after talks with the Turkish government in Ankara.

The meeting was aimed at averting major military operations by Turkey against PKK fighters based in northern Iraq.

Turkey has threatened to send in troops if it does not see any concrete action.

Nearly 50 Turkish soldiers have died in clashes with Kurdish fighters in the last month and the government is under huge public pressure to respond with force.

'Very difficult problem'

Speaking at a news conference after talks with the Turkish president, prime minister and foreign minister, Ms Rice said the US was committed to redoubling its efforts to eliminate the threat to Turkey from the PKK.

"I affirmed to the prime minister as well as to the foreign minister that the United States considers the PKK a terrorist organisation and indeed that we have a common enemy, that we must find ways to take effective action so that Turkey will not suffer from terrorist attacks," she said.

"That is destabilising for Iraq, it's a problem therefore of security for the United States and Turkey and we will work together to achieve our goals," she added.

"This is going to take persistence and it is going to take commitment. This is a very difficult problem... Rooting out terrorism is hard."

Is Turkey planning invasion?

Turkey's Foreign Minister, Ali Babacan, said Ms Rice's visit marked the start of close co-operation between the Nato allies.

"This is where the words end and action needs to start," he said.

Ms Rice gave little detail of any concrete steps the US planned to take, but said current activities, such as the sharing of intelligence, would be enhanced and referred to a "comprehensive approach" that is currently being discussed.

She also underlined that any steps taken by Turkey, whether military or otherwise, had to be effective and reinforce the goal of a stable and secure Iraq on Turkey's border.

The BBC's Sarah Rainsford in Ankara says Ms Rice's visit will set the tone for a meeting between the Turkish Prime Minister, Recep Tayyip Erdogan, and US President George W Bush on Monday in Washington.

Economic sanctions

On Wednesday, the Turkish government announced it had begun to implement new military, political, diplomatic and economic measures to combat the PKK.

Although no details were given about the economic measures, correspondents say they may result in a boycott of the semi-autonomous Kurdistan Regional Government in northern Iraq, which Ankara says is failing to rein in the activities of the PKK.

The move came after Iraq pledged to step up checkpoint security in an effort to deny the movement of the PKK and cut off its supply lines.

The US also said it had stepped up its supply of "actionable intelligence" to the Turkish military to help it locate PKK positions in northern Iraq.

Turkish officials are demanding the closure of PKK camps in Iraq and want the group's leaders arrested.

Ms Rice says the Kurdish President, Masoud Barzani, has pledged to disassociate his administration from the PKK - but Turkey remains sceptical.

"We have doubts about the sincerity of the administration in northern Iraq in the struggle against the terrorist organisation," the Associated Press quoted Turkey's foreign minister as saying.

However, any military operation would target PKK bases, and would not be a general invasion, Mr Babacan added.

[MossadConspiracy]

Basically America just said to the Iraqi Kurds:

"You Mean Nothing to Me"

[Jamroll]

Originally Posted by MossadConspiracy

Basically America just said to the Iraqi Kurds:

"You Mean Nothing to Me"

It's Gone With the Wind all over again. *wipes tear*

[Ugur]

Originally Posted by MossadConspiracy

You do support war between Turks and Kurds, you're supporting it right now. Kurds dont just have the right to speak a language, they have the right to have a state because they are a nation just as the Turks are. I dont know if thats in the Quran or not, but its how the world works. So when nations start giving up their right to self determination and statehood, let Turkey do it first before any other. Until then, Turks have a state, Arabs have many, Persians have one, and Kurds should too.

ws

No, you are a liar. That's simply not how things work. There are many very large ethnic groups in countries like Pakistan and India who speak different languages too. Being a large ethnic group does not mean you must have your own state. If so, divide India, Pakistan and a great many of the world nations into smaller nations first and come to us later.

In today's circumstances, asking Turkey or, say, America to agree to give up some of its lands is the most stupid thing to say. Neither America nor Turkey will ever do it without fighting for those lands. Spain will not cede some of its lands to the Basques and Catalans either.

Even Iran does not consist of one single Persian nation. In Iran, there are millions of Azeris, Kurds and other big ethnic groups like the Kurds of Turkey. If I am not mistaken there are more Azeris in the negihboring areas of Iran than in the Azeri nation state Azerbaijan. You are either ignorant or blatantly lying.

You, Mr MossadConspiracy, are saying that Muslims lands should be divided up even more and two hostile Muslim nation states are created instead of one bigger Islamic power in the lands of Turkey. From an Islamic viewpoint, this is tantamount to calling for war, fitnah and enmity between two Muslim groups. Though Allah knows better, I think this is a grave offense for which you won't be able to answer in the judgment day. Even the religious Kurds here are against a separate state for this reason. But non-religious Americanized people like you want to see us hate and fight each other. Shame on you and your ilk.

In reply to some people who buy the silly idea that "Turkey is not a Muslim country". Turkey may be a secular state but it is a true "Muslim country". Although many Turks and Kurds and other Muslim ethnic groups in Turkey have been brainwashed regarding the meanings of concepts like the shariah, they are all firm believers in Islam. Plain and simple.

Originally Posted by MossadConspiracy

everytime you say that it turns out to be a lie

also why set a limit at 2 months, that seems so arbitrary.

2 months is complete.

[MuslimahDaTurkish]

[psychoteddybear]

Ibo is Kurdish too

but yeah...I support Turkey.