[albano]

Originally Posted by GOTFIVEONIT

partition is not the answer. we desis have the experience with partition. to this very day, some 60 years after partition of the south asian sub-continent, india and pakistan are still fighting over kashmir, which is a result of partition. five million yes 5 MILLION people moved to and from india and pakistan in either direction. muslims to pak, hindus to india, simply for being on the wrong side of the border. some of whom were general musharrif, born in delhi, india and the current PM of india, manmohan Singh, who grew up in rawalpindi,modern day pakistan. it sparked off the most bloodiest, the most viscious sectarian riots ever seen to this very day in that region. upto 1 million people died as a result of partition riots. i promise you this, if turkey were to be partitioned, it would spark off massive ethnic riots, kurds living in istanbul, and ankara would be chased out of burning homes, and the turks in eastern turkey would be chased out of that region with thier lives. during the partition riots in south asia, bodies layed strewn on the streets for days on end, women arrived on trains into pakistan - with thier breasts chopped off. if turkey were to be partitoned in this mannner, the same scenario would play out in modern times, the end result will be massive ethnic cleansing on either side of the new border. if that can even be agreed upon. even throughout the middle east there are so many border disputes, it sparked iraq's invasion of kuwait, it sparked a war between eritrea and ethiopia. it sparked off a bloody war between iran and iraq in the 80's, something i remember from when i was a kid, where upto 1 million people died in that 8 year long conflict - over a daam waterway. the same result would occur in a partitioned turkey.

On the top of that if there was ever to be Kurdistan in Turkish, Syrian or Iraqi soil it would be some puppy state dictated by US and the zionist regime.

[MuslimahDaTurkish]

well said albano..

mossadconspiracy ,u r alone with ur nonsense solutions. Please stop that,since u r closing eyes to the clear situation no matter what.Easy to throw mud from ur chair. We dont have to persuade you. And you are the last person to comment over our land. bye,i'm ignoring you.

[RelyPeace]

Bush and Aasif tell u why it is inevitable. I didnt know you have members more narrow minded than Bush.

The Daily Show with Jon Stewart - Turkey Lurking

[Ugur]

I have been missing some points all along in these two threads about a possible Turkish incursion into North Iraq (and certainly I was not mistaken on the wrongness of contributing to the divide-and-conquer policies of western infidel powers over the ummah). I was definitely right that it is more legitimate for Turkey to crack down on the terrorists in North Iraq than it was for the Americans to invade Iraq and Afghanistan.

But legitimacy or relative legitimacy is not sufficient. We live in a world where not legitimacy but power and cunning works.

If Turkey invades North Iraq now, she will possibly do the opposite of what she intends. Maybe she will destroy the PKK. But the imperialists who want to divide Turkey will support other new terrorists organizations after that. With Turkey in North Iraq, it will be easier for them to demand for the new state not only North Iraq but the entire Kurdish-majority region including Turkey's south east. More, these divide-and-conquer guys in the west will promote the sly propaganda that the day of the invasion was the start of a new age in the Kurdish struggle for freedom. That will, however, in actuality be a turning point in the imperialists' own struggle to pit one Muslim ethnic group another, dividing Muslim lands even more and then conquering them bit by bit.

The U.S. pretends not to want Turkey to enter North Iraq. In reality, she wants the opposite. This can be discerned from the statements from American officials. She wants the above-mentioned turning point to occur for her long-term schemes.

I hope Turkey does not invade Iraq, is not obliged by the terrorists and the imperialists to accidentally kill even a single civilian Kurd while trying to fight the terrorists.

Yes, I am talking accidental killings. Wouldn't any Turk purposely kill another Muslim like a Kurd? Yes, it is true that there are such godless Turks for sure, as there are that kind of bad Kurds too. There are some Turks who hate and do injustice to Kurds and vice versa. But essentially these two peoples have lived together in peace for centuries. Both are Muslim. And true Muslims in each group love their Muslim brethren in the other group very much. My own warm friendship with lots of Kurds is a small part of this mutual affection on my part.

O Allah, do not let us fight against other Muslims thereby putting our brotherhood in jeopardy. Protect us from a war between Turks and Kurds. Make our country into a good Islamic state where you are revered and where everybody lives in peace with each other. Do not let us perish because of the thoughtless, un-Islamically behaving Turks, Kurds, and other people amongst us. Aameen!

[Ugur]

Originally Posted by MossadConspiracy

All of the Turks here are simply being nationalistic although they'll all say that nationalism is some great evil. None of the Turks would tolerate being subjects of the Kurds, even if the Kurds do give seats to some of their parties while banning others. And yet they are more than happy to subject Kurds to the same situation that they would never accept for themselves.

That is absolutely wrong, a slander indeed. I am just against a war between Turks and kurds, as I explained in this thread. I am not against Kurds having the same rights in all spheres as the Turks. I am avidly for it. Kurds have the right to have their education in their own language; their culture has the right to be honored as much as Turkish culture is honored etc etc which this secular state does not wholly provide. But they should reach these goals though peaceful efforts, through collaboration with their Muslim neighbors peacefully.

In Islam, there is no rule that each ethno-linguistic group should have its own state. We are obliged in the Qur'an to be united. Yes, this is valid for Turks, too; I wish our country was something like "the Islamic Republic of Asia Minor" or "the Turkish and Kurdish provinces of the world Islamic state". But we have a current real situation and we have to act according to it. All Muslims are obliged by Islam to promote peace, unity and justice in the ummah, and not more divisions.

[Ugur]

Ouch, I am done. Inshallah I will not be coming here for a while. Wallahi, I will not log on to Islamica for 2 months as of now; this is a promise that I am Islamically obliged to keep. As Anderson says, I should return to my job instead of trying to persuade a bunch of insignificant people in a trivial message board called Islamica over the Islamic political ideals.

[MossadConspiracy]

Originally Posted by Ugur

That is absolutely wrong, a slander indeed. I am just against a war between Turks and kurds, as I explained in this thread. I am not against Kurds having the same rights in all spheres as the Turks. I am avidly for it. Kurds have the right to have their education in their own language; their culture has the right to be honored as much as Turkish culture is honored etc etc which this secular state does not wholly provide. But they should reach these goals though peaceful efforts, through collaboration with their Muslim neighbors peacefully.

In Islam, there is no rule that each ethno-linguistic group should have its own state. We are obliged in the Qur'an to be united. Yes, this is valid for Turks, too; I wish our country was something like "the Islamic Republic of Asia Minor" or "the Turkish and Kurdish provinces of the world Islamic state". But we have a current real situation and we have to act according to it. All Muslims are obliged by Islam to promote peace, unity and justice in the ummah, and not more divisions.

You do support war between Turks and Kurds, you're supporting it right now. Kurds dont just have the right to speak a language, they have the right to have a state because they are a nation just as the Turks are. I dont know if thats in the Quran or not, but its how the world works. So when nations start giving up their right to self determination and statehood, let Turkey do it first before any other. Until then, Turks have a state, Arabs have many, Persians have one, and Kurds should too.

ws

[MossadConspiracy]

Originally Posted by Ugur

Ouch, I am done. Inshallah I will not be coming here for a while. Wallahi, I will not log on to Islamica for 2 months as of now; this is a promise that I am Islamically obliged to keep. As Anderson says, I should return to my job instead of trying to persuade a bunch of insignificant people in a trivial message board called Islamica over the Islamic political ideals.

everytime you say that it turns out to be a lie

also why set a limit at 2 months, that seems so arbitrary.

[Aryan_]

My guess is the Americans side with the Kurds and invade enough of Johnny Turkey to create a new state. It gets their Fez's spinning for a few years, but they eventually get Cyprus and finish Hellenism there.

[GOTFIVEONIT]

Originally Posted by albano

On the top of that if there was ever to be Kurdistan in Turkish, Syrian or Iraqi soil it would be some puppy state dictated by US and the zionist regime.

ya well, turkey is a member of nato, and trying to join the E.U. LOL

but i do know that joining the EU is for economic gains.

[GOTFIVEONIT]

im watching bbc world news right now on pbs, and apparantly the turkish govt is giving the pkk 'last chance talks'. like i said, the only solution to this, is a seperate provrince of kurdistan within a turkish federation. there is no need for an independent state altogether. like i said where does it stop? what about the baluchi's in iran and pakistan? some baluchi militants turned thier weapons on the pakistani army, should they also have thier own independent state based on language? even though everyone is muslim? should the azeri provinces of Iran be annexed by azerbaijan? should the uzbeks, turkmeni's, and others in afghanistan be annexed by those neighboring countries? you dont see the ethnic minorities of afghanistan demanding full independence do you? because everyone is muslim thats why. create a seperate province based on language inside turkey, the way india and pakistan have it, and this problem is resolved.

[GOTFIVEONIT]

in 1971, pakistani's fought a bloody civil war, which resulted in the bengali majority declaring independence and the creation of bangladesh. everyone was Muslim, upto 1 million bengali muslims died in that civil war, when west pakistan went to war with east pakistan. the last thing we want to see is a civil war break out in turkey. that civil war in pakistan was avoidable, but the military generals just wouldnt stay out of politics, kinda the same way the turkish generals dont do in turkey.

YouTube - 1971 India-Pakistan War; Indian Victory; Bangladesh Created

YouTube - General Niazi Surrendoring Pak India War 1971

[GOTFIVEONIT]

1. Dividing up a library at the time of 1947 partition [Photo: Life Magazine, August 1947]



Troops in Amritsar after riots in 1947

BBC - History - The Hidden Story of Partition and its Legacies



Partition of India in 1947 - the areas in red show the regions of conflict at the time of partition

[GOTFIVEONIT]

Kurdish Peshmerga Defense Forces are seen in Dahuk, 430 kilometers (260 miles) northwest of Baghdad, Iraq Wednesday, Oct. 24, 2007. More than 100 of the fighters arrived in the border town amid tensions with neighboring Turkey. Two Turkish jet fighters streaked across the mountain peaks Wednesday, on their way to bomb a site about six kilometers (4 miles) inside the Iraqi border, said residents of a Kurdish border village.

Iraq's Kurds vow to fight Turkish troops

By DOUGLAS BIRCH
Associated Press Writer

Two Turkish jet fighters streaked across the mountain peaks near this border village Wednesday as part of an expanding military force gathered to pressure Kurdish rebels to abandon their hideouts in northern Iraq.

Residents claimed the planes were on a bombing run to hit a site about four miles inside Iraq, but could offer no details to back up their assertion. If true, however, the airstrike would mark a notable escalation of Turkish tactics against the Kurdish rebels.

The overflight came after three days of artillery shelling from inside Turkey at this area along the Zey-Gowra River, said Jalal Salman, the 45-year-old principal of the local school, and five other villagers.

Turkey's government has warned it will launch an offensive into northern Iraq if Iraqi authorities don't move against bases used by the Kurdish Workers' Party, or PKK, which has waged a more than two-decade fight for autonomy in predominantly Kurdish southeastern Turkey.

Officials in Iraq's Kurdish region say there are no PKK bases, at least in populated areas under government control.

Local officials said the Turkish artillery fire had mostly hit orchards, roads, mountainsides and, in one case, a tourist restaurant in a cave. So far there were no casualties in this area, they said.

Five other Derishkit residents joined Salman and gestured toward a Turkish military post on a hilltop in the neighboring town of Khani-Mase. An armored vehicle stood on the heights, its gun pointing down the slope. The post is one of five bases established inside this part of Iraq in the mid-1990s with Iraqi Kurd agreement as part of Turkey's war against PKK separatists.

Salman said villagers were not intimidated by the base's soldiers, who they said sometimes fired machine guns at people gathering firewood on the slopes below.

They also said they won't hesitate to wage war on Turkish troops if an invasion comes.

"There will be a guerrilla war, and we will take up arms," Salman said as the other men nodded in agreement. "What else can we do? They are bombing us. They are committing aggression."

Popular anger at Turkey seems to be growing in northern Iraq, along with quiet preparations for conflict. There have been large demonstrations in the region's major cities, and television reports on a Kurdish protest in Turkey's capital riveted viewers here.

According to a report in one Kurdish newspaper, people living near one of the largest Turkish bases in northern Iraq threatened to attack the post if the Turkish army continued to fire artillery at the area.

Meanwhile, the Kurdish regional government has moved in units of its Peshmerga Defense Forces from the region's south. More than 100 of the fighters arrived aboard white buses Tuesday morning in Dohuk, capital of the region.

Smaller units of Peshmerga mustered in mosques and schools near the border, which they usually avoid because of the risk of clashes with Turkish troops. Several convoys of white SUVs, evidently carrying high-ranking Peshmerga commanders, were seen traveling in the area.

Muhammed Mohsin, an official with northern Iraq's dominant Kurdish Democratic Party in the Amadiya border area, said more than 50 villages in his area had been bombarded by Turkish artillery in recent days but no casualties had been reported.

Mohsin, one of the most influential political figures in Amadiya, said residents and the Peshmerga have laid plans for fighting any Turkish incursion.

"Our tactic is partisan fighting, a partisan conflict," he said. "If they attack, we are going to launch a partisan war against them."

[MossadConspiracy]

Bangladeshis are happy that their country was created and would not want to live as Pakistani subjects, in much the same way that Kurds would be happy if their country was created.