[GOTFIVEONIT]

The PKK has been stepping up attacks on Turkish troops



"I don't think Turkey wants to get involved militarily in Iraq. It wouldn't benefit either country"

Jose Aleman
Oxford, UK

THE PKK
- Formed in late 1970s
- Launched armed struggle in 1984
- Dropped independence demands in 1990s
- Wants greater autonomy for Turkey's Kurds
- Leader Abdullah Ocalan arrested in 1999
- Ended five-year ceasefire in 2004

Last Updated: Tuesday, 23 October 2007, 23:04 GMT 00:04 UK

Iraq to ban Kurd rebel operations

Iraq says it will close the offices of the Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK) rebel group and will "not allow it to operate on Iraqi soil".

Prime Minister Nouri Maliki said he would also "work on limiting its terrorist activities which are threatening Iraq and Turkey".

The PKK has been blamed for a number of recent deadly raids inside Turkey.

Turkey has come under intense public pressure to use force after its parliament approved cross-border raids.

Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan said Ankara was considering sanctions on Iraq over incursions by the PKK.

The US military commander in Iraq, Gen David Petraeus, has told the BBC it would be very difficult for anyone to police Iraq's northern border but pressure should be put on the PKK.

'No ceasefire'

Mr Maliki said in Baghdad after meeting visiting Turkish Foreign Minister Ali Babacan: "The PKK is a bad terrorist organisation and we have taken a decision to close its offices and not allow them to work on Iraqi soil."

Mr Babacan earlier said Turkey would put the emphasis on a diplomatic solution.

"Politics, dialogue, diplomacy, culture and economy are the measures to deal with this crisis," he said.

Mr Babacan rejected any ceasefire with the PKK, saying this was not possible with a "terrorist organisation".

In the past week, Turkey has been building up its military presence on the border with Iraq and, on the other side, PKK rebels have stepped up their attacks against Turkish troops.

There are thought to be about 3,000 PKK rebels based in Iraq.

The rebels claim to have captured several troops following an attack on Sunday that left 12 soldiers dead. The Turkish military says eight soldiers are missing.

Tens of thousands of Turks protested across the country on Tuesday during the funerals of the troops who were killed.

About 10,000 people attended the funeral of Vedat Kutluca in Keskin, 100km (62 miles) east of Ankara.

The Anatolia news agency said 50,000 marched in the western city of Aydin.

In London, Mr Erdogan said: "We may impose some sanctions with respect to some goods we export to Iraq."

He did not specify what might be embargoed but mentioned Turkey had been helping Iraq with water, fuel and food.

"I believe the countries who believe in fighting jointly against terrorism will understand this response, if we choose to display it, because terrorism is a scourge for mankind."

At a news conference with UK Prime Minister Gordon Brown, Mr Erdogan said Turkey had no territorial designs on Iraq.

But he added that the Turkish military could use force against the PKK "at any time" if Baghdad failed to act.

US dilemma

Speaking to the BBC World Service, Gen Petraeus pointed out the difficulty of carrying out operations in the border mountains.

"It's really in a tri-border area where the recent clashes took place, with Turkish, Iraqi and Iranian borders in that location, in extreme terrain for carrying out operations," he said.

He suggested that Kurds in the north of Iraq had channels of communication to the PKK and should use them to dissuade them from further attacks.

They could, he said, "get them [the PKK] to step back off the ledge... and not make a very difficult situation worse than it already is".

The commander added that the US had found itself in an "exceedingly difficult position" between Nato ally Turkey and Iraq, an ally in the fight against "difficult insurgent enemies".

[GOTFIVEONIT]

The talk on the streets of Irbil is of a pending Turkish strike





Iraqi Kurds have controlled a fertile mountainous area since 1991

Last Updated: Tuesday, 23 October 2007, 16:37 GMT 17:37 UK

Turkey threat looms over Iraqi Kurds

By Crispin Thorold
BBC News, Irbil

Irbil is Iraq's boomtown. Relatively peaceful, and with large sums of international money helping to drive economic growth, over the past few years this city in Kurdish northern Iraq has thrived.

Things have got so good that President of the Regional Government Massoud Barzani recently boasted he would turn Irbil into a "new Dubai".

Staying in Irbil often feels like the first stop on the long journey towards Central Asia and, although it is in the heart of the Middle East, the city has its own distinct identity.

Kurds form the vast majority of its population, business is conducted largely in Kurdish and in the markets it is Kurdish music that blares from the loudspeakers.

Key city

All the talk in Irbil's souqs at the moment is of the threat of Turkish military operations in northern Iraq.

One man, wearing the traditional clothes of the peshmerga, the Kurdish fighting forces, summed up the local sentiment.

"Turkey wants to attack Kurdistan and I don't agree with this", he said.

"I denounce them and if they do it we will fight them."

Irbil is a critically important city for the political ambitions of the Kurds, who have a degree of autonomy here that they don't enjoy anywhere else in the Middle East.

The two main factions, the PUK (Patriotic Union of Kurdistan) and the KDP (Kurdistan Democratic Party), have stopped fighting and their leaders have negotiated a political accommodation.

While Massoud Barzani, the head of the KDP, is the president of the Kurdish regional government, Jalal Talabani, the head of the PUK, is the president of the Iraqi government.

In other words, the Kurds of northern Iraq have fared well in recent years, unlike citizens in most other parts of the country.

'Take the fight to Turkey'

There is a real sense here, though, that the threat of Turkish military operations against the PKK (Kurdistan Workers' Party) could destabilise this semi-autonomous region.

The PKK, the target of Turkey's wrath, was formed in southern Turkey and most of its operations have been carried out there.

But while people here may be united in their anger towards the Turkish threat, they are also frustrated with their fellow Kurds in the PKK.

"I think it is wrong", one man said. "The PKK should go back into Turkey and struggle. There is a new government in this area. We are in the beginning.

"If they want to go to Turkey they should go there to fight for their rights".

The sense you get from many people here is that the PKK is in part responsible for bringing trouble onto Irbil's doorstep.

The PKK may say that it is fighting for Kurdish rights, but many of the Kurds in Northern Iraq say they would like the PKK to take that fight elsewhere.

[Ugur]

Originally Posted by MuslimahDaTurkish

i think this is for you mossaddam:


news: 8 turkish soldiers held hostage by kurds.. may Allah help them and their painful families

Not by the Kurds but by the terrorists who do not represent the Kurds at all except a vast minority of supporters of ethnic extremisn, terrorism and violence. Choose your words more appropriately, please sister.

[Ugur]

Oh, there are claims that these soldiers were traitors who helped the terrorists first to martyr poor Turkish soldiers in their own military unit and then submitted to the terrorists. If this claim about the soldiers is true, this only proves that they are murderous traitors, nothing else. O Allah, send these murderer-traitors quickly to hell if this is true!

O Allah, help us, this nation of Turkish and Kurdish Muslims, against our kafir American and Israeli enemies and their puppets from North Iraq and from within our country and from among the ranks of those who have been brainwashed and mentally bastardized by western and westernized teachers.

This du'a is for help in this world. In the judgment day, religious Muslims will certainly watch the enemies of Muslims, the friends of the forces of unbelief blackened in the face and cast into the humiliated ranks of opposition to Allah and His Messenger (peace be unto him). The North Iraqi dogs along with the ethnic terrorists amongst us here in Turkey and the Islamican Mossad conspirator fall into this category of servants of the forces of unbelief. May Allah either guide them or save us from their evil. Aameen.

Praise and thanks to Allah in every case. O Allah, make our feet firm against the enemy in the battlefield and foil all the kuffar's evil designs aimed at dividing and then conquering our lands of Islam. Allahu akbar! Innaa lillaahi wa innaa ilayhi raaji'oon! Allahu akbar!

[Ugur]

Originally Posted by MossadConspiracy

since i'm turkish myself i can do whatever i want with turkish girls

Yeah Bin Ladin is a patriotic American and George Bush is an Iraqi and Condolezza Rice is Afghan.

[Ugur]

But if the US has to ally with Turkey in the end because of Turkey's power and get rid of the PKK, then the traitors to this Muslim nation and to Islam will also get what they deserve inshallah.

The Republic of Turkey may be secular, but almost the entire population of Turkey is Muslim. Therefore, war against Turkey in the side of the kuffar is war against Islam.

[MossadConspiracy]

Originally Posted by GOTFIVEONIT

i just watched on al jazeera how kurdish communities in southeastern turkey are being paid by the govt to fight the pkk. what i dont get is why not spare everyone the violence, the civilians caught in the middle and enter into negotations to put an end to the violence? why not simply create a seperate kurdish province within turkey and the situation is setteled?

because turkey never lets go. It doesnt matter if lands are 70 or 80 or 90% kurdish. Doesnt matter if they would vote overwhelmingly for independence. Doesnt matter if the land is practically worthless. It doesnt even matter if its the Ottoman Sultan, Ataturk, the Generals, the Islamic parties, whoever. Turkey will never willingly allow any of its subjects to be independent, period.

ws

[GOTFIVEONIT]

Originally Posted by MossadConspiracy

because turkey never lets go. It doesnt matter if lands are 70 or 80 or 90% kurdish. Doesnt matter if they would vote overwhelmingly for independence. Doesnt matter if the land is practically worthless. It doesnt even matter if its the Ottoman Sultan, Ataturk, the Generals, the Islamic parties, whoever. Turkey will never willingly allow any of its subjects to be independent, period.

ws

i think you misunderstood what i wrote. I am not talking about an independent kurdistan, im not talking about a partition of turkey into two seperate states as what occured between india and pakistan. Both communities, the turkish and the kurdish are muslims and on top of that sunni muslims! they simply speak two different languages. in other muslim countries, countless number of languages are spoken, i think pakistan is a perfect example of this. In india and in pakistan, the states and provinces are drawn up based upon langauges with certain amount of autonomy. for example in those states/provinces, the local dominate language is the official government language, where government business is conducted in that language, in punjab its punjabi, in gujarat its gujrati, in sindh its sindhi, in west bengal its bengali and so on. that also means that its also mandatory for people to learn how to speak, read and write in those state/provincial languages as well. the same can easily be applied to a province within turkey, called kurdistan, where kurdish is the official provincial langauge, but turkish would be the overall official national/state language and this would solve everything. even the pkk themselves gave up thier demands for independence and are simply demanding more provincial autonomy, which i think is very reasonable. but there is no need to partition turkey, or break up the turkish state, because everyone in turkey is muslim and thats what matters the most.

[GOTFIVEONIT]

there are kurdish regions in Iran as well, so what? there are baluchi speaking groups in Iran too, guess what there is an entire province in pakistan called baluchistan (land of the baluch) and in afghanistan there are half a dozen langauges spoken, you have the uzbek, you have the khazaks, you have the turkemani, and of course the pathan (pashtoo). In Pakistan's Northwest Frontier Province, the provinial language is pashtoo of course. does this mean that all these languages should be grouped together into one country based on on language? NO. even in baluchistan you have a militant uprising of groups demanding independence and joining up with baluchis in Iran, its no different than the kurdish problem too. in any case i dont support any ethnic-based movements from muslim lands because muslim is what matters the most. everyone after all is muslim here.

in the case of india and pakistan, partition was inevitable, because hindus and muslims are completly and vastly different. in fact MC i have more in common with you, an arab, than i do with a hindu from my own race, simply due to the fact that you are a Muslim and those hindus are not.

[Revert]

This whole situation saddens me I thought we (Muslims) were better than petty vengance.

[GOTFIVEONIT]

i mean you dont see 300 million arabians trying to unify into one single state based on language do you? they tried that long ago and it failed miserably. you have arabs in lebanon spitting on the syrans faces for having thier troops there, and everyone is arab, everyone speaks arabic.

[MossadConspiracy]

Originally Posted by GOTFIVEONIT

i think you misunderstood what i wrote. I am not talking about an independent kurdistan, im not talking about a partition of turkey into two seperate states as what occured between india and pakistan. Both communities, the turkish and the kurdish are muslims and on top of that sunni muslims! they simply speak two different languages. in other muslim countries, countless number of languages are spoken, i think pakistan is a perfect example of this. In india and in pakistan, the states and provinces are drawn up based upon langauges with certain amount of autonomy. for example in those states/provinces, the local dominate language is the official government language, where government business is conducted in that language, in punjab its punjabi, in gujarat its gujrati, in sindh its sindhi, in west bengal its bengali and so on. that also means that its also mandatory for people to learn how to speak, read and write in those state/provincial languages as well. the same can easily be applied to a province within turkey, called kurdistan, where kurdish is the official provincial langauge, but turkish would be the overall official national/state language and this would solve everything. even the pkk themselves gave up thier demands for independence and are simply demanding more provincial autonomy, which i think is very reasonable. but there is no need to partition turkey, or break up the turkish state, because everyone in turkey is muslim and thats what matters the most.

A Kurdish Autonomous Region in Turkey like the one in Iraq could be a good thing to reduce tensions but in the end the Kurds will still want to exercise their right as a nation to be independent. As long as that right is denied there are going to be problems (in turkey, iraq, syria, iran)

[ReFresher]

, that all is a deal...That all is basis for build holy israel between euphorat and nil...

[MossadConspiracy]

Kurds are different from Jewish Israelis. They have been where they are for thousands of years, since long before the turks got there. Like the Palestinians who lived in Palestine before the Jews migrated there in the early 20th century.

[ReFresher]

Originally Posted by MossadConspiracy

Kurds are different from Jewish Israelis. They have been where they are for thousands of years, since long before the turks got there. Like the Palestinians who lived in Palestine before the Jews migrated there in the early 20th century.

brother, if you think so, there is alot race they should not be there wehere are they now..