[Revert]

My friend has a PHD in Biology and she said that womens perception of depth and distance is inferior to mens...so driving is slightly more dangerous for women but not so much as to cause a ban...well mabye hehe


I'm playing people

[tinkerbell]

Statistics show that male drivers are at higher risks, hence why their auto insurance tends to be a bit more than females.

[ChotooMotoo]

My husband doesn't like to drive that much. I mostly drive the car. If there was a ban on womens driving in the USA it would suck.

The ban on womens driving, especially the reasoning they give for it, doesn't make any sense to me. You want to keep women from driving because you want to minimize contact with non-mahrams... which means that your family either has to drive you everywhere, you hire a driver (usually non-mahram) or take a taxi (almost certainly non-mahram) when you need to go out. That means there is a good chance you will be in more intimate contact with a non-mahram becuase you needed to take a taxi, than if you were simply allowed to drive yourself.

That being said though, I personally wouldn't want to drive in Saudi, the trafic is just . I closed my eyes the whole time I had to be in a car.

[AceOfHearts]

Originally Posted by ChotooMotoo

My husband doesn't like to drive that much. I mostly drive the car. If there was a ban on womens driving in the USA it would suck.

The ban on womens driving, especially the reasoning they give for it, doesn't make any sense to me. You want to keep women from driving because you want to minimize contact with non-mahrams... which means that your family either has to drive you everywhere, you hire a driver (usually non-mahram) or take a taxi (almost certainly non-mahram) when you need to go out. That means there is a good chance you will be in more intimate contact with a non-mahram becuase you needed to take a taxi, than if you were simply allowed to drive yourself.

That being said though, I personally wouldn't want to drive in Saudi, the trafic is just . I closed my eyes the whole time I had to be in a car.

All the teachings in Sunni Islam is geared in favour of men and not just the driving. Lets quote some example, men are getting attracted by women, lets cover them completely (their face, hands, eyes, feet, everything), men are getting attracted by womens voice, ok, lets ban women's voice, men are getting attracted by perfumes on women, right lets ban perfume on women...men are still getting attracted even after forcing them (fooling them) into becomming pitch black voiceless objects, ok...lets ban women altogether: women should stay indoors and cannot drive outside.

The burden is ALWAYS put on the women so that the men will find it easier. That is because it is these men who have been in charge since the beginning and have been circulating these teachings.

[Variable]

Originally Posted by AceOfHearts

All the teachings in Sunni Islam is geared in favour of men nd not just the driving. Lets quote some example, men are getting attracted by women, lets cover them completely (their face, hands, eyes, feet, everything), men are getting attracted by womens voice, ok, lets ban women's voice, men are getting attracted by perfumes on women, right lets ban perfume on women...men are still getting attracted even after forcing them (fooling them) into becomming pitch black voiceless objects, ok...lets ban women altogether: women should stay indoors and cannot drive outside.

The burden is ALWAYS put on the women so that the men will find it easier. That is because it is these men who have been in charge since the beginning and have been circulating these teachings.

Chicks who can handle cars like fighter pilots are pretty sexy tho. (and motorcycles )

[ChotooMotoo]

Originally Posted by AceOfHearts

All the teachings in Sunni Islam is geared in favour of men nd not just the driving. Lets quote some example, men are getting attracted by women, lets cover them completely (their face, hands, eyes, feet, everything), men are getting attracted by womens voice, ok, lets ban women's voice, men are getting attracted by perfumes on women, right lets ban perfume on women...men are still getting attracted even after forcing them (fooling them) into becomming pitch black voiceless objects, ok...lets ban women altogether: women should stay indoors and cannot drive outside.

The burden is ALWAYS put on the women so that the men will find it easier. That is because it is these men who have been in charge since the beginning and have been circulating these teachings.

Sorry, but keeping women from driving is not a teaching of Sunni Islam, or you would see more countries restricting access (especially the sunni ones). As I pointed out with the obvious religious contradiction, restricting womens driving in Saudi Arabia is more about Saudi culture than anything else.

I think you're confusing things in your posts. One is the idea of women as special people who need to be treated with extra respect and care, and the western idea that if a woman isn't doing certain things, she must be opressed. I know lots of Saudi women, and they feel that while it is definately inconvenient, they like being driven around by others like a VIP. I think it's good that Islam teaches men that they have the responsibility to earn the money, and that whatever a woman earns is her own to keep. If a woman helps out her husband with money, it's sadaqa. If a man pays his wifes expenses, he's simply fulfilling his duties. Can you see the difference in philosophy there?

[ameen]

Originally Posted by ChotooMotoo

I think you're confusing things in your posts. One is the idea of women as special people who need to be treated with extra respect and care, and the western idea that if a woman isn't doing certain things, she must be opressed. I know lots of Saudi women, and they feel that while it is definately inconvenient, they like being driven around by others like a VIP. I think it's good that Islam teaches men that they have the responsibility to earn the money, and that whatever a woman earns is her own to keep. If a woman helps out her husband with money, it's sadaqa. If a man pays his wifes expenses, he's simply fulfilling his duties. Can you see the difference in philosophy there?

salam,

It's very ironic that you say his post is 'confusing', because clearly your post is talking about a bunch of irrelevant things about gender, since you have no choice but to change the subject when faced with the facts. It doesn't matter whether or not you 'like' being driven around by others, the fact that they're being denied the right to drive is what your Hadith-filled scholars have invented themselves. If you're trying to justify the ban with that argument, then you're proving yourself to be a hypocrite by driving around a car in the West, because undoubtedly there are women in the West who also 'like' being driven around by others. Perhaps they should ban female-drivers where you live because of those women who enjoy being chaperoned?

[rxrlm]

FYI: Saudi Arabia's ban on females driving is not based on religion. Has nothing to do with sunni islam. It's cultural and they admit that too. In fact, women do drive around in rural areas of Saudi.. its just the urban cities where its a strict no-no. Its all cultural bs that they have to shed slowly. Drastic changes can cause problems especially in a heavily segregated society. It will take time but it will happen someday inshAllah.

[ameen]

Originally Posted by rxrlm

FYI: Saudi Arabia's ban on females driving is not based on religion. Has nothing to do with sunni islam. It's cultural and they admit that too. In fact, women do drive around in rural areas of Saudi.. its just the urban cities where its a strict no-no. Its all cultural bs that they have to shed slowly. Drastic changes can cause problems especially in a heavily segregated society. It will take time but it will happen someday inshAllah.

salam,

It is VERY MUCH to do with religion, but because the root of it is slightly subtle, you aren't able to relate it to religion directly. The ban on women driving is agreed by male Mufthis like the one in the following video, and it is clear that his arguments are based on an anti-women mentality he finds basis for in corrupt Hadith. All of his arguments are the typical nonsense that is spread by Sunni Islam. They'd prefer women didn't exist in society, so that they can live in their male-only world without the Fithna (the woman):

YouTube - Muslim Cleric explains why women shouldn't drive

[ChotooMotoo]

Originally Posted by ameen

salam,

It is VERY MUCH to do with religion, but because the root of it is slightly subtle, you aren't able to relate it to religion directly. The ban on women driving is agreed by male Mufthis like the one in the following video, and it is clear that his arguments are based on an anti-women mentality he finds basis for in corrupt Hadith. All of his arguments are the typical nonsense that is spread by Sunni Islam (they'd prefer women didn't exist in society, so that they can live in their male-only world):

YouTube - Muslim Cleric explains why women shouldn't drive

No, it has nothing to do with religion. He's just trying to conjure up an Islamic justification for a Saudi cultural preference. If Saudi's really believed that women shouldn't be allowed to drive, then why do so many Saudi sisters I know learn to drive in the U.S., and THEIR HUSBANDS TEACH THEM AND ENCOURAGE THEM. These are niqab wearing sisters, so if you say it's becuase they are unaware of a religious obligation, you would be talking crap.

[AceOfHearts]

Originally Posted by ChotooMotoo

No, it has nothing to do with religion. He's just trying to conjure up an Islamic justification for a Saudi cultural preference. If Saudi's really believed that women shouldn't be allowed to drive, then why do so many Saudi sisters I know learn to drive in the U.S., and THEIR HUSBANDS TEACH THEM AND ENCOURAGE THEM. These are niqab wearing sisters, so if you say it's becuase they are unaware of a religious obligation, you would be talking crap.

Why do you not admit that there is religious basis for the ban on women driving? Why are you just deceiving yourself?

The basis is not a clear direct hadith stating women should not drive cars, but it is the whole mentality arising from Sunni Islam on women.

You can continue to be in self-denial, that is to your own detriment, as you will never find the Qur'anic path if you persist.

[ameen]

Originally Posted by ChotooMotoo

If Saudi's really believed that women shouldn't be allowed to drive, then why do so many Saudi sisters I know learn to drive in the U.S., and THEIR HUSBANDS TEACH THEM AND ENCOURAGE THEM. These are niqab wearing sisters, so if you say it's becuase they are unaware of a religious obligation, you would be talking crap.

salam,

Again you're saying irrelevant things that don't make sense. The ban is there REGARDLESS of the Saudi women who prefer to drive in Saudi Arabia, and there are these women there who want to drive just like in the West, which the user 'Musashi' attested to in her post above (she lives in Saudi Arabia). She agrees that many Saudis disagree with the ban on women driving, but the ban is not in their control because it's only THOSE SUNNI MEN WHO MAKE THE LAWS in Saudi Arabia, it's these men who have the Hadith-mentality, the Sunni mentality, the anti-women mentality, which leads to things like this ban on women driving. Their Sunni religion (and yours) teaches this attitude to shun women from society, so they feel they have religious justification for the ban. But of-course it's not religion because they don't follow the Qur'an (most Sunnis don't).

wasalam

[ChotooMotoo]

Originally Posted by AceOfHearts

Why do you not admit that there is religious basis for the ban on women driving? Why are you just deceiving yourself?

The basis is not a clear direct hadith stating women should not drive cars, but it is the whole mentality arising from Sunni Islam on women.

You can continue to be in self-denial, that is to your own detriment, as you will never find the Qur'anic path if you persist.

Your post makes absolutely no sense. You should really stop smoking pot, it's not good for critical thinking skills.

[Musashi]

Asallamu 'alaikum wa rahmatulLahi wa barakatuh

Your arguement is flawed, ameen, and please don't use my post to justify it. ^^;

May I add that women (including the Prophet's wives and daughter) rode horses/camels/mules and there are hadith on that? If the majority were to rule, the hadith would be in FAVOR of driving, as opposed to that one most likely da'eef hadith that contradicts the others.

And saying that Sunnis don't follow the Quran is just bizzare.

>>> If Saudi's really believed that women shouldn't be allowed to drive, then why do so many Saudi sisters I know learn to drive in the U.S., and THEIR HUSBANDS TEACH THEM AND ENCOURAGE THEM. These are niqab wearing sisters, so if you say it's becuase they are unaware of a religious obligation, you would be talking crap.

Agreed. Though with me it's my father and Bahrain, which is only a bridge drive away, rather than a plane trip to America. ^^; (I'm scared of traffic, though, so I'll pass.)

[Jamroll]

Originally Posted by AceOfHearts

Why do you not admit that there is religious basis for the ban on women driving? Why are you just deceiving yourself?

The basis is not a clear direct hadith stating women should not drive cars, but it is the whole mentality arising from Sunni Islam on women.

You can continue to be in self-denial, that is to your own detriment, as you will never find the Qur'anic path if you persist.

Actually I w