[ChotooMotoo]

Except that your jihad isn't against these people, it's affecting the lives of everyong in Pakistan. You're not even conducting your jihad in a halal manner. You're just formenting civil unrest, violence.. ie mischeif in the country. Allah (swt) does not like mischeif makers.

Like I said in another post, to which you didn't replyl, you had better be damned good and sure that everyone in Pakistan has signed up for your revolution. If only Madrassah students want a revolution, you're going to get a civil war instead. YOu already has one civil war durring partition. Do you really want another one, Muslim vs. Muslim?

[Abu_Hind]

Originally Posted by hershel_krustowski

Yaar, but its true that the mullah folk backed fully, the lunacy of the mosque leaders. Bribing is something off the top of my head, but I am sure there are tons of other ways. The "students" were obviously naive, innocent and especially illiterate young men and women who fell for the simplistic propaganda. no?

I dont think anyone can deny that prostitutes exist. Porn exists. Drugs exist. They exist and the government doesn't support it. If anyone claims it, i haven't seen evidence. There's this thing called due process. I guess my point is, that since the mullah folk have the power to sway the simple minded, why don't they use it to do something constructive. Like a peaceful rally AGAINST the fact that the state/fed govt isn't doing too much in this particular area etc etc.

Meray khyaal may, they have jumbled up issues altogether to get some sympathy. Magar the fact that they were violent was just disgraceful. You simply CANT force your views at will. Plus the violent suicide bombing in open markets after the incident doesn't help their cause.

You have an arguement. But, I'm not sure how much I agree with your assertions.

But I would like to mention one important point: Wafaqul madaaris disowned Jamia Hafsa for it's actions a long time ago. Mufti Rafi and Taqi Usmani censured them. And many Ulema disagreed with their methods.

As for swaying illiterate publics mind, then anyone can do it. Whether it's the mullah or the PPP corrupt politician. Although it is a relevant point, it's still moot, because it's universal.

Ba har haal, mein yeh kheta hoon keh Lal Masjid bhee ghalat thay aur hakumat key iqdamaat bhee ghalat thay. No need to keep goin' on and on like a broken record.

[IbnAbdullah]

Originally Posted by ChotooMotoo

Except that your jihad isn't against these people, it's affecting the lives of everyong in Pakistan. You're not even conducting your jihad in a halal manner. You're just formenting civil unrest, violence.. ie mischeif in the country. Allah (swt) does not like mischeif makers.

For example whose lives were affected by the Lal Masjid people? Their movement cannot be called violent at all. You can't shower flowers on these Munafiqeen if they demolish 7 mosques in Islamabad, then after negotiation they agree to reconstruct them but then refuse to do so.
Lal Masjid people didn't kill a single Prostitute, Massage Centre Worker or a Policeman. If you go through the above posts you will see even the residents of the area were supporting them and that's the reason why not only Lal Masjid people were punished by the Kafir Regime, but the residents of the area were also punished for their support to Lal Masjid. Their electricity and gas was cut off, their area remained under curfew many days after the operation was over.

Like I said in another post, to which you didn't replyl, you had better be damned good and sure that everyone in Pakistan has signed up for your revolution. If only Madrassah students want a revolution, you're going to get a civil war instead. YOu already has one civil war durring partition. Do you really want another one, Muslim vs. Muslim?

Well, whoever wants to join the Revolution is welcome inshaAllah. In Iran it wasn't madrasah students; obviously there are all people from all departments of life who want shari'ah in Pakistan and the only thing required is the "Unity" and a "Leadership", once we get them we will topple the Kafir down inshaAllah.

[Aryan_]

Just wondering. Out of all the people against brothels, how many have actually been to one? You shouldn't knock something until you've tried it.

[IbnAbdullah]

Originally Posted by Abu_Hind

Ba har haal, mein yeh kheta hoon keh Lal Masjid bhee ghalat thay aur hakumat key iqdamaat bhee ghalat thay. No need to keep goin' on and on like a broken record.

I respect your opinion, and though I believe only Allah knows what the truth is but there's something which doesn't let me believe that Lal Masjid Administration was a bunch of trouble makers. Look, they issued a fatwa against Paki Corrupt Army in Waziristan and in favour of Talibans, that's where the Kafirs went against them. Even before Abdul Aziz's father was killed by the government in 1998. Then these Munafiqeen demolished 7 masjids through CDA in Islamabad only to stir the sentiments of Lal Masjid people. Then I'm sure the incident of Aunty Shamim was not something new, there must have occurred similar incidents in the past, and such incidents do happen everywhere in Pakistan that residents of the locality along with the help of Masjid try to kick the Prostitutes out of their locality. That did happen in my area many years ago. But this time the government and its Secular dogs highlighted everything against the Lal Masjid. English Newspapers like DAWN, were calling for an operation against them. Secular dogs in the media were calling for an operation against them, why? Because they had locked up a brothel and those who were benefitted from that brothel were Parliamentarians.
Abdul Aziz sacrificed his family for the sake of Allah, he is not a coward like these Seculars who run away from the scene leaving their workers to die and after death they play politics on the dead bodies.
Secondly in my opinion, those who say the method of Lal Masjid people was wrong, are wrong themselves. What Lal Masjid people were doing (i.e shutting down brothels and massage centres) was not against the Law of Allah, that maybe against the Secular Laws of Pakistan but not against the Law of Allah. If these Munafiqeen reject Shari'ah, why the heck we respect their Secular Laws?

[ChotooMotoo]

Originally Posted by IbnAbdullah

For example whose lives were affected by the Lal Masjid people? Their movement cannot be called violent at all. You can't shower flowers on these Munafiqeen if they demolish 7 mosques in Islamabad, then after negotiation they agree to reconstruct them but then refuse to do so.
Lal Masjid people didn't kill a single Prostitute, Massage Centre Worker or a Policeman. If you go through the above posts you will see even the residents of the area were supporting them and that's the reason why not only Lal Masjid people were punished by the Kafir Regime, but the residents of the area were also punished for their support to Lal Masjid. Their electricity and gas was cut off, their area remained under curfew many days after the operation was over.

Indescriminate suicide bombings in marketplaces, planting bombs in populated areas of NWFP so that my family are afraid to leave their houses is not jihad. You aren't even targeting the government, you're not targeting anything. You're just killing people indescriminately for no reason. It's like you're collectively punishing people just for being Pakistani and needing to do things like go shopping or visit banks. How then are you any different from Israeli's? Oh yeah, you're not Jewish. Otherwise what you're doing amounts to the same thing.

As Abu Hind said, top Ulema in Pakistan and elsewhere condemned the actions of the Lala Masjid and Jamia Hafsa people. Nobody is pro-prostitute, but there are much better ways of illiminating prostitution than taking people hostage and acting outside of the law. You could have, for isntance, taken pictures of all the men who visted those horrible places and put their pictures on display for all to see. It's all about supply and demand. Prostitutes have a job because men are willing to pay them for their services. If you eliminated the demand, prostitution would disapear. Instead you punish the prostitutes and let their clients go free. As if prostitutes didn't have a miserable enough life.

[IbnAbdullah]

Originally Posted by Aryan_

Just wondering. Out of all the people against brothels, how many have actually been to one? You shouldn't knock something until you've tried it.

We don't need to try any brothels while we have come across 'Brothel Lovers' who are nothing but a bunch of 'Garbage' on earth.

[ChotooMotoo]

Originally Posted by Aryan_

Just wondering. Out of all the people against brothels, how many have actually been to one? You shouldn't knock something until you've tried it.

You want to sleep with some poor illiterate woman who is forced to sleep with hundreds of men with probably no protection from STD's, be my guest. I'm all for giving that poor slave girl some eduction so she can have a decent respecable life where she is not treated as less than dirt to satisfy some stupid mans lust.

[bluey]

Assalam Alaykum

The Jamia Hafsa/Red Mosque topic has become a controversial one. [I've had enough arguments with People about it] I was in Pakistan when the Red Mosque situation happened. Both sides were at fault, not just one. A lot of students in the Mosque, especially the Women had been threatened/harassed by the police before among other things. I can't believe people would be opposed to shutting down a brothel or burning porn videos. Regardless of how they did it, we need people to put a stop to it, not only in Pakistan but in other Countries too. People have the tendency to forget the good things they did. For the record, there was US pressure and backing in the operation. Some news sources even said that agents were directly involved in the operation. And finally no matter what, I think a solution could have been found and the bombing of the Masjid could have been avoided.

[IbnAbdullah]

Originally Posted by ChotooMotoo

Indescriminate suicide bombings in marketplaces, planting bombs in populated areas of NWFP so that my family are afraid to leave their houses is not jihad. You aren't even targeting the government, you're not targeting anything. You're just killing people indescriminately for no reason. It's like you're collectively punishing people just for being Pakistani and needing to do things like go shopping or visit banks. How then are you any different from Israeli's? Oh yeah, you're not Jewish. Otherwise what you're doing amounts to the same thing.

I agree with you, that's not Jihad. But you have to agree with me that didn't exist before the State Terrorism of Pakistan and America was started here. You stop your State Terrorism upon innocent Pakistani, you wouldn't have any Suicide Terrorism back to you.
Doesn't that make sense?

Obviously a non religious or religious brother can be the Next Suicide Bomber whose sister was killed in the Lal Masjid by the Paki Army and it wouldn't surprise me if this angry and aggrieved brother of this sister blows off an English School or a College where children of Army Officials go. You give oppression, you will take it back.

As Abu Hind said, top Ulema in Pakistan and elsewhere condemned the actions of the Lala Masjid and Jamia Hafsa people.

That's untrue. Only a bunch of losers comdemned them including Salimullah Khan who was the president of Wafaqul Madaaris, he and Hanif Jalandhari are both resigning from their posts because of their Hypocritic Role during the Lal Masjid Massacre. Even one loser from Jamiat Ulama Islam was beaten up by scholars in the yesterday's meeting of Wafaqul Madaaris. Madrasah students and ulama are very angry with the so called religious leadership of Pakistan which is a bunch of Coward Hypocrites.

Nobody is pro-prostitute, but there are much better ways of illiminating prostitution than taking people hostage and acting outside of the law.

If you know better ways, have you ever applied them in this life? When some people are doing something you are the first to criticise, though you don't have a tiny share in anything good. It's been reported that even the Abpara Police told Masjid Administration that they can't take action against Aunty Shamim because she has an approach to 'Upper Officials', yes, according to reports even the Police told them to take action against the prostitute and they were not alone in that action, the residents of the area G-6 were accompanied by them.

You could have, for isntance, taken pictures of all the men who visted those horrible places and put their pictures on display for all to see. It's all about supply and demand. Prostitutes have a job because men are willing to pay them for their services. If you eliminated the demand, prostitution would disapear. Instead you punish the prostitutes and let their clients go free. As if prostitutes didn't have a miserable enough life.

Oh really? What an effective idea, it never occured to me, by the way where you bought this idea, in which superstore?

[ChotooMotoo]

Originally Posted by IbnAbdullah

Oh really? What an effective idea, it never occured to me, by the way where you bought this idea, in which superstore?

Nothing ever occurs to you. If you had any good ideas about how do to things, there wouldn't be a deteriorating law and order situation across Paksitan now would there.

[Aryan_]

Originally Posted by ChotooMotoo

You want to sleep with some poor illiterate woman who is forced to sleep with hundreds of men with probably no protection from STD's, be my guest.

Thanks...glad you've come around

Originally Posted by ChotooMotoo

I'm all for giving that poor slave girl some eduction so she can have a decent respecable life where she is not treated as less than dirt to satisfy some stupid mans lust.

Prostitution is a charitable thing. When you give a prostitute her fee, you aren't just giving her money to buy sandals, you're giving her compassion. Refusing to go to a brothel is like not giving a starving Somali kid an iPod. Don't be so heartless.

Originally Posted by bluey

Assalam Alaykum

The Jamia Hafsa/Red Mosque topic has become a controversial one. [I've had enough arguments with People about it] I was in Pakistan when the Red Mosque situation happened. Both sides were at fault, not just one. A lot of students in the Mosque, especially the Women had been threatened/harassed by the police before among other things. I can't believe people would be opposed to shutting down a brothel or burning porn videos. Regardless of how they did it, we need people to put a stop to it, not only in Pakistan but in other Countries too. People have the tendency to forget the good things they did. For the record, there was US pressure and backing in the operation. Some news sources even said that agents were directly involved in the operation. And finally no matter what, I think a solution could have been found and the bombing of the Masjid could have been avoided.

There are a lot of social "ills" in Pakistan, but if I were to rank them in terms of how damaging they were to society, a few ***** houses where no one gets hurt wouldn't be very high on the list.

Far more damaging to society are the madrassas and mosques of jihad where Saudi sheikhs send there money to brainwash "Bakistani" children into the suicide missions. A lot more people have died from wahhabi suicide missions (including the children brainwashed into doing it) than people have caught HIV or the clap.

If you were sincere about being a muslim, you'd be a lot more concerned about the former than you would about a few chinky sluts selling themselves in an Islamabad backstreet.

[IbnAbdullah]

Originally Posted by Aryan_

Far more damaging to society are the madrassas and mosques of jihad where Saudi sheikhs send there money to brainwash "Bakistani" children into the suicide missions. A lot more people have died from wahhabi suicide missions (including the children brainwashed into doing it) than people have caught HIV or the clap.

If you were sincere about being a muslim, you'd be a lot more concerned about the former than you would about a few chinky sluts selling themselves in an Islamabad backstreet.

I think Saudis should ask their brainwashed kids to blow off the brothels and muta houses with prostitutes and their customers, so that we can't see their 'LOVERS' in the forum anymore

[Jamroll]

I haven't read through the whole thread, but the situation in Pakistan seems to be getting worse not because of some heavy-handed rebels but because of the government.

The Pakistani Army needs to stay out of politics, and military dictatorships who act in the interests of their Western masters, against the will of the people, will be met with extremism. We never had any kind of suicide bombings or these kind of actions until the unelected Pakistan government decided to join Bush in his retarded "war on terror".

The problem with Pakistan is not the people, or these zealous Lal Masjid types, but the ruling elite, who are the descendants of the elite from the British Raj days. Think about it: the Brits ruled India, a nation of hundreds of millions, with only 10,000 soldiers at the most. It would have been impossible without the compliance of twisted sell-outs who they supported as their puppets. And when the Brits left, they left these same people in charge. They still have the mentality of being "goreh ke ghulam". This is the Pakistani elite today. The colonialism never ended, we just have a brown face on it, in order to make the people more compliant.