[SaidAbdullahofDarfur]

Originally Posted by Khairan

It's true -- I made the choice to take out loans and pay the interest so I could get the education I wanted and do the work I wanted to do. It is what it is.

So you do what you want regardless of ALLAH(SWT)'s Laws?

[serendipity_000]

Assalamu Alaikum,

Isn't that between him and Allah (subhana wa ta'ala) ? Why does he have to justify his decisions to you? I'm sure he knows the ins and outs of his actions, the consequences and ramifications. And after all, Allah does know best what will happen, focus more on what you'll have to explain on the day of judgement.

[Bruinrab]

Originally Posted by SaidAbdullahofDarfur

Or what about participating in the deadly dance of medical capitalism?
FDA, Insurance, College, Hospitals, and Drug companies, and Pharmacies...

all looking out for each other, with no regard for their fellow man...

How are you going to explain that to ALLAH(SWT)

and all of this for what?

a piece of paper?

What's the solution? Sit back and let people die of controllable infections and allow them to suffer major disabilities without intervening? There are many, many problems with modern healthcare. However, implying that the industry as a whole does nothing for humankind is patently stupid.

I could argue that anyone in computer sciences should be ashamed of themselves. After all, their work helps make internet porn widely available, allows far too many opportunities for fraud and crime, and wastes people's time when they could be more productive (or pious). But I suspect I would (rightly) be called an idiot if I ever said such a thing.



P.S. If you ever get appendicitis, or pneumonia, or any other potentially life-threatening illness, remember to opt out of the corrupt healthcare system. Oh, and let us know how that works out for you.

[SaidAbdullahofDarfur]

Originally Posted by Bruinrab

What's the solution? Sit back and let people die of controllable infections and allow them to suffer major disabilities without intervening? There are many, many problems with modern healthcare. However, implying that the industry as a whole does nothing for humankind is patently stupid.

This administration steals life, It doesn't give it.

I could argue that anyone in computer sciences should be ashamed of themselves. After all, their work helps make internet porn widely available, allows far too many opportunities for fraud and crime, and wastes people's time when they could be more productive (or pious). But I suspect I would (rightly) be called an idiot if I ever said such a thing.

Horrible comparison.

Buying a computer Isn't buying porn.
Getting an M.D. however is buying into the FDA

P.S. If you ever get appendicitis, or pneumonia, or any other potentially life-threatening illness, remember to opt out of the corrupt healthcare system. Oh, and let us know how that works out for you.

I'll see my imam about it...I'm too poor to afford the Corrupt american insurance anyway, so its best to not accept it as my own choice.

Ma salam

[SaidAbdullahofDarfur]

Originally Posted by serendipity_000

Assalamu Alaikum,

Isn't that between him and Allah (subhana wa ta'ala) ? Why does he have to justify his decisions to you? I'm sure he knows the ins and outs of his actions, the consequences and ramifications. And after all, Allah does know best what will happen, focus more on what you'll have to explain on the day of judgement.

I'm not trying to judge, If I am I'm truly sorry to any whom I might have offended.


What I am trying to do is figure out through interrogation(if you can even call it that ), what his reasoning or justification is.

If I never asked, how would I learn?

Who knows maybe there's a surah or hadith that helps his point out alot?

[Khairan]

Originally Posted by SaidAbdullahofDarfur

So you do what you want regardless of ALLAH(SWT)'s Laws?

To some degree, that is true. There are a number of things that I know I shouldn't do which I do anyway -- perhaps I am alone in that, but in any case I admit it.

I try to be a good muslim insofar as I can, and recognize that there are many areas in which I fail at this. There are other areas in which I do well. I've also found that I wax and wane in this regard, being better at things I was formerly bad at and worse at things I used to be better with, as time passes. In the end, my focus is to try and do more good than I've done harm as best as I'm able to judge such things. God will decide where my balance lies when the time comes.

[Bruinrab]

Originally Posted by SaidAbdullahofDarfur

This administration steals life, It doesn't give it.

Hmmm, well if we extend the argument that anyone who deals with a government agency on a regular basis is corrupt...I hereby accuse you of corruption. You probably do go or have gone to a government funded school at some point in your life; you or your parents have (hopefully) paid taxes (evil IRS - I'll give you that one); you derived benefits from subversive governmental activities like providing clean water and sewage services, paving the roads, and perhaps even, gasp, public transportation.

Horrible comparison.

Buying a computer Isn't buying porn.
Getting an M.D. however is buying into the FDA

Horrible only because it shows how stupid your point is. Any system is corruptible. Doesn't negate the good outcomes possible within that general framework. There's black and there's white, and some of us have discovered this lovely thing called shades of gray.

I'll see my imam about it...I'm too poor to afford the Corrupt american insurance anyway, so its best to not accept it as my own choice.

Ma salam

If your imam is hiding the solutions to all human ailments under his kufi, I call no-fair. He should play nice and share.







P.S. Try again in a few years.

[RestlessSoul]

Originally Posted by SaidAbdullahofDarfur

Or what about participating in the deadly dance of medical capitalism?
FDA, Insurance, College, Hospitals, and Drug companies, and Pharmacies...

all looking out for each other, with no regard for their fellow man...

How are you going to explain that to ALLAH(SWT)

and all of this for what?

a piece of paper?

that came out of left field. all those institutions you mentioned are just the nature of medical practice here in the U.S. do you fault the lawyer working to correct the injustices of the criminal court system for participating in a corrupt system?

sure doctors ultimately profit from the sickness of others, but do they not have a right to get paid for providing a vital service? many ulema taking money for teaching hifz. is that wrong? how are they supposed to earn a livelihood if that is their full-time occupation? the same applies to physicians

Originally Posted by SaidAbdullahofDarfur

So you do what you want regardless of ALLAH(SWT)'s Laws?

it's one thing to not obey Allah (swt)'s laws, but to deny that they are incumbent upon you is a whole other level. MANY people flout the injunctions upon them, but those who at least acknowledge that they are weak will inshAllah be forgiven. not an excuse to engage in wrong with the intent of getting forgiven, but the point still stands.

[Khairan]

Originally Posted by Bruinrab

There's black and there's white, and some of us have discovered this lovely thing called shades of gray.

Some of us are discovering it more than others, you know.

[Bruinrab]

Originally Posted by Khairan

Some of us are discovering it more than others, you know.

OMG!!!

[SaidAbdullahofDarfur]

Originally Posted by Bruinrab

Hmmm, well if we extend the argument that anyone who deals with a government agency on a regular basis is corrupt...I hereby accuse you of corruption. You probably do go or have gone to a government funded school at some point in your life; you or your parents have (hopefully) paid taxes (evil IRS - I'll give you that one); you derived benefits from subversive governmental activities like providing clean water and sewage services, paving the roads, and perhaps even, gasp, public transportation.

In Islam, the Son Does NOT pay For the sins of the Father.
So no, I have not paid government tax, I'm lucky enough to have a job that gets around that.

Most of those government activities you mentioned are actually privatized...
Like Water and "Public Transit" well...actually our city bought the public transit system...

Since My conversion I try not to fund this place any more than I need too...

Horrible only because it shows how stupid your point is. Any system is corruptible. Doesn't negate the good outcomes possible within that general framework. There's black and there's white, and some of us have discovered this lovely thing called shades of gray.

how does your horrible comparison show a flaw in my argument?

Doctors can't prescribe medication thats not FDA approved.
I'm a Computer Tech.

I can get a client any part I have, without it being approved by...lets say playboy...

See the GIANT difference sister?

If your imam is hiding the solutions to all human ailments under his kufi, I call no-fair. He should play nice and share.

No, its a matter of 'which of these would have a greater backing in Islam.'

P.S. Try again in a few years.

Here we go...

Whats wrong with my current argument sister?
Are you one of those people who wants to tell me to, 'Put my hand in the fire to know its Hot?'.

[SaidAbdullahofDarfur]

[quote=RestlessSoul;40194]that came out of left field. all those institutions you mentioned are just the nature of medical practice here in the U.S. do you fault the lawyer working to correct the injustices of the criminal court system for participating in a corrupt system?[quote]

Strike or foul?
Light humor brother, light humor...

The Nature of things?
Seems like a copout...

Oh killing is the nature of man...blahblahblah
If you can give me anything from the quran that says paying interest is halal, hording cures for the interest of capital, paying for schooling, If you can give me this proof I might be more inclined to take your view on the nature of man.

sure doctors ultimately profit from the sickness of others, but do they not have a right to get paid for providing a vital service? many ulema taking money for teaching hifz. is that wrong? how are they supposed to earn a livelihood if that is their full-time occupation? the same applies to physicians

Is the conjunction really needed brother...?
This is what drives the FDA,
CAPITALISM

Supply and Demand.
"see a need, fill a need"

In order for there to be a Demand for doctors and Drugs, First, Create a monopoly!
"Drugz Only" The Crips of Medicine!

Now Make a Demand, so there is a need. Whoops, you got rid of natural remedies, now people need drugs, Whoops, Cancer, Now people need drugs, Whoops Can't Sleep? You need drugs! Feeling Down? You need Drugs!

Sick people must be created for there to be a need or a supply of doctors and medicine.

And this is done via insurance.

You pay them monthly for 'protection' see any different than a gang?
And when you need help theyre job is to keep you from getting that cure and to spend all your money on things that "ease" your pain...

More money for the drug dealers....errr...pharmacists....

See how the everyday guy gets screwed over and the medical people(some of them) win?

Corruption, needs to be eliminated.
Not Embraced.

it's one thing to not obey Allah (swt)'s laws, but to deny that they are incumbent upon you is a whole other level. MANY people flout the injunctions upon them, but those who at least acknowledge that they are weak will inshAllah be forgiven. not an excuse to engage in wrong with the intent of getting forgiven, but the point still stands.

uhhh.....mashallah akhee, mashallah

So Glad to have my Islamica Muslim Family....
and no, this isn't sarcasm...seriously...

[Bruinrab]

Originally Posted by SaidAbdullahofDarfur

In Islam, the Son Does NOT pay For the sins of the Father.
So no, I have not paid government tax, I'm lucky enough to have a job that gets around that.

Keep trying to "get around that". I promise I won't tell the IRS. And I promise they won't make you pay any fines or throw you in jail for tax fraud, either.

Most of those government activities you mentioned are actually privatized...
Like Water and "Public Transit" well...actually our city bought the public transit system...

Since My conversion I try not to fund this place any more than I need too...

Specious argument. Yes, most of the work is carried out by private or semi-private entities (aka, government contractors), but who awards the contracts and makes th