[Revert]

Originally Posted by psychoteddybear

No ...they started WAY before. What you refer to is the most "current" rising of the Masons...the Knights of Templar were a part of them as well.

So the French King wanted to revive his economy, so he got into cahoots with the current Pope (at that time) to start the Crusades...the Knights conveniently were sent to Jerusalem at that time to find treasures dating back to King Solomon..whether they did or not is up for debate. After they returned to Europe, for some convenient little political intrigues, the Masons were branded as heretics and their leader was tortured...I forget his name...Jacques de Molay perhaps...and so their movement stayed underground and low key until the time of the Sinclairs and the building of the Rosslyn "church" in Scotland.

But in reality, Freemasonry dates back to the times of ancient Egypt. I highly recommend you read "The Hiram Key" for anyone who's interested in this.

wa salam

I've read all those theories on the origins of the Masons..i'm still not convinced.

[psychoteddybear]

Originally Posted by Revert

I've read all those theories on the origins of the Masons..i'm still not convinced.

why, out of curiosity?

[Revert]

Originally Posted by psychoteddybear

why, out of curiosity?

I've spoken to Masons..i know as much as a person can without joining.

[Deel]

i find the constant denial in the thread amusing.

[zzze]

asslamau alaykum

i watch them go into the mason building in my hometown i felt like i was a muggle until it was pointed out to me

[TrentReznor858]

Originally Posted by Abu_Hind

I'm not sure why calling him Ataturd hurts your sensitivities. Anyway I don't want to repeat myself but from what I know. A person becomes kafir if:

a) He/She denies something that is known by necessity in Islam.

b) He/She denies something that is known through tawwatur.

c)He/She simply mocks and makes fun of, derides, rejects etc...anything from Shari'ah.

Now you can figure for yourself which of these apply to Ataturd. Ma'salamah.

Ummmmmmmm none of that applies to what he did. I think people like you help me to understand why people in the middle east kill each other over such petty differences. Also, who made up that list? I am curious. If it was you, and you are just pulling things out of you know where, please put them back. And, like I said, who the hell gave you the right to call anyone kaffir?

[LEGALEAGLE]

Originally Posted by TrentReznor858

Ummmmmmmm none of that applies to what he did. I think people like you help me to understand why people in the middle east kill each other over such petty differences. Also, who made up that list? I am curious. If it was you, and you are just pulling things out of you know where, please put them back. And, like I said, who the hell gave you the right to call anyone kaffir?

The Quran itself....and since you reject hadith then you must take the word 'kaffir' in it's absolute sense whenever its mentioned in the quran...

[Revert]

Originally Posted by Deel

i find the constant denial in the thread amusing.

Constant denial? Explain.

[vegetables]

the truth about the freemasons: The Simpsons 'Stonecutters song'

[TrentReznor858]

Originally Posted by LEGALEAGLE

The Quran itself....and since you reject hadith then you must take the word 'kaffir' in it's absolute sense whenever its mentioned in the quran...

So the Quran gave you the right to be a judgemental ***** who calls people kaffir? That list did NOT come from the Quran. The prophet did NOT intend for his ummah to run around calling their fellow muslims kaffir over every single little meaningless difference in belief. Grow up. Who said I rejected hadith? I reject hadith that are obviously tained or stupid.

[Abu_Hind]

Originally Posted by TrentReznor858

Ummmmmmmm none of that applies to what he did. I think people like you help me to understand why people in the middle east kill each other over such petty differences. Also, who made up that list? I am curious. If it was you, and you are just pulling things out of you know where, please put them back. And, like I said, who the hell gave you the right to call anyone kaffir?

Who the hell gave you the right to tell me not to call a kaafir a kaafir. Or better yet who the freak are you put a moral constraint on me. If you don't like what I say just get with it, everyone on this forum have the right to express their opinions dip sh*t.

As for issue of takfir open classical works for your convenience...oh wait you are too incompetent for that.

[TrentReznor858]

Originally Posted by Abu_Hind

Who the hell gave you the right to tell me not to call a kaafir a kaafir. :

And the nomination for dumbest post ever goes to.....Abu Hind! Tell me, how much effort did it take to come up with that wonderful sentence

Originally Posted by Abu_Hind

Or better yet who the freak are you put a moral constraint on me.

English must not be your first language. A moral constraint? NOT calling people Kaffir is a moral constraint? subhanallah, every time I think muslims hit a new low.

Originally Posted by Abu_Hind

If you don't like what I say just get with it, everyone on this forum have the right to express their opinions dip sh*t.

No **** sherlock, just as anyone is allowed to call your posts stupid. Get with the program.

Originally Posted by Abu_Hind

As for issue of takfir open classical works for your convenience...oh wait you are too incompetent for that.

So you are saying the prophet said to call people kaffir, then he said not to? Which is it?

[Kaminyu]

Originally Posted by Revert

Calling someone dumb and then saying with all due respect isn't a justification for it. I agree with you on the first paragraph on Takfir you wrote too. I however still think he was a Muslim, a flawed, faulty one but still a Muslim.

It is said that Ataturk wasn't really a Muslim, but a crypto-Jew from the Doenme, who were an underground sect of Sabbetaians. The Sabbetaians were Turkish Jews who took Muslim names and outwardly behaved like Muslims but secretly believed in Sabbetai Zevi, the 17th-century false messiah, and conducted carefully guarded prayers and rituals in his name:

source

[TrentReznor858]

Originally Posted by Kaminyu

It is said that Ataturk wasn't really a Muslim, but a crypto-Jew from the Doenme, who were an underground sect of Sabbetaians:

source

at the "source"